PFT me. I need 25,000

[Dude]

To PFT or not to PFT....

I guess it could be argued either way, whether or not to PFT. Personally, I detest the practice and do not spare an individual from my opinion if asked regarding such things. Point is, work your a$$ off like everyone else and have some honest equity in your career.

I have flown with many that PFT'd their way to the right seat during good times and did a fine job, but that doesn't excuse PFT. Unfortunately, when you pay someone to work for them or just for the training you are setting an irreversible standard. Why should a company pay you or pay for the training when there are so many that are willing to do it for them?

There's no substitute for flying single-pilot IMC, in broken equip., in conditions you aren't comfortable with, long duty days (16+ hrs), saying no means your job, trying to cash a cancelled payroll check, having a payroll check bounce, flying an airplane that Orville wouldn't get into, being "laid off" because some low-time schmuck will do your job for less, and etc. Experience is the key. Without it, you have no credibility and are a hazard to other QUALIFIED pilots that earned their position through blood, sweat, and tears. Nothing is free, especially a career in aviation.

Make your choices wisely and have some integrity for the love of John. Work hard and the career will be all the sweeter. There's nothing more annoying than a 500hr pilot sitting in the crew lounge bitching when he is flying an RJ that he shouldn't even be in for another 2-3 years, if he had done it right.

I know it's quicker to PFT, but it's also easier to steal......doesn't make it right. Just my 2 cents.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Re: To PFT or not to PFT....

I guess it could be argued either way, whether or not to PFT. Personally, I detest the practice and do not spare an individual from my opinion if asked regarding such things. Point is, work your a$$ off like everyone else and have some honest equity in your career.

I have flown with many that PFT'd their way to the right seat during good times and did a fine job, but that doesn't excuse PFT. Unfortunately, when you pay someone to work for them or just for the training you are setting an irreversible standard. Why should a company pay you or pay for the training when there are so many that are willing to do it for them?

There's no substitute for flying single-pilot IMC, in broken equip., in conditions you aren't comfortable with, long duty days (16+ hrs), saying no means your job, trying to cash a cancelled payroll check, having a payroll check bounce, flying an airplane that Orville wouldn't get into, being "laid off" because some low-time schmuck will do your job for less, and etc. Experience is the key. Without it, you have no credibility and are a hazard to other QUALIFIED pilots that earned their position through blood, sweat, and tears. Nothing is free, especially a career in aviation.

Make your choices wisely and have some integrity for the love of John. Work hard and the career will be all the sweeter. There's nothing more annoying than a 500hr pilot sitting in the crew lounge bitching when he is flying an RJ that he shouldn't even be in for another 2-3 years, if he had done it right.

I know it's quicker to PFT, but it's also easier to steal......doesn't make it right. Just my 2 cents.

AGREED! And if you PFT you might be in Topguns shoes.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

The "new airline" is TabExpress airline. It is run by a flight school in Deland Florida. I have seen ads stating Airline Pilots were wanted, no experience required, only 7-10 months to devote to training. What a scam.

I think you pay around $60K for your ratings and then they pay you back after you have served three years as an FO.

Right now they have 1-2 1900s and they are always in the avionics shop at my airport.

 

[TopGun-MAV]

TAB EXPRESS airline is not what the ads make it out to be. the training is top notch and it's not paying for a job. if you don't meet the standards they will cut wou. i'm a qualified first officer for tab.

GO THE MAV!!!

 

[wheelsup]

The last figure I saw from TAB was approximately $95,000. Yeah. 95 big ones. Jesus. You're not buying a job, you're buying about 3 jobs. This is ab-initio from zero time to 500 hrs or so TT (not including unloggable sim time).

The "airline" they are starting has been pushed back from starting up last september/october to end of april (latest news). It just keeps getting pushed back. For the next 3 months, if you are 'accepted' into the program, you get reimbursed 3 years later your full training costs...however you cannot fail any of your 6 month currency rechecks etc. etc. I just can't believe that if TAB is facing reimbursing someone $100,000 they won't fail you in your last 1 or 2 checkrides...I wouldn't trust it!!

Not only that, but you have to 'buy' 250 hrs of SIC time before you can get on with the 'airline' full-time, once you complete that, it will lead to about 50 hrs of flying a month at $25.00/hr. Yippee! You couldn't even pay the loan payment on $95,000 to hold out for your 3 years! That's about $1050/month after tax net!

You are in fact buying a job. The only reason you went to TAB is because of that airline deal...if not you're a FOOL!!!! TAB places 'graduates' with Colgan if you foot the $18,000 training tab (hehe), but so does the Regional Airline Academy down the street (also at Deland) and at almost half the cost. By paying for your initial SIC time you're taking a seat that should be filled by a paid f/o. And don't say that you're getting paid to be in that seat! You might, but at a reduced amount ($8.00/hr I think for the SIC training part of it). Not only that, you have to pay out the $25,000 to TAB to train you to fly the thing.

All this and it's being run by the same people that brought you ATA! If you're unfamliar...do the research. I've always lived under the notion that if it sounds too good to be true - it probably is!

~wheelsup

 

[bobbysamd]

(Seventh note to self: Do not answer flamebait)

TAB EXPRESS airline is not what the ads make it out to be. the training is top notch and it's not paying for a job.if you don't meet the standards they will cut wou. i'm a qualified first officer for tab.

GO THE MAV!!!

(Emphasis added)

Shouldn't that word be "you?" So, you got past those V1 cuts? Been sipping from that
TAB can again? How's your little friend, TABExpressF/O?

Paying the TAB is P-F-T in every way. Perhaps now is the time to try some Ipecac syrup. You need an antidote to that TAB cola!

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Hey Mav,

didn't you read about one of your brothers, from TAB, who failed GLA (I think) because he couldn't master V1 cuts? What kind of "quality" training did he receive? I know guys who sailed right through training transitioning from 172s!
-TAB is like playing with FIRE , its been proven.

 

[DHPFLYN]

Sorry guys Colgan is no longer PFT

 

[B190Captain]

Yep, Colgan is no longer PFT. They came down to GIA and hired 20 "program" FO's.

 

[gottafly]

Yep, Colgan is no longer PFT. They came down to GIA and hired 20 "program" FO's.

When did Colgan do that? Within the past 2 weeks?

 

[B190Captain]

Nope, I say within the last month and a half or so.

 

[T-Gates]

I met quite a few Colgan F/O's at FSI LaGuardia.... No more PFT. I believe that goes for the Beech as well as the Saab.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

I met quite a few Colgan F/O's at FSI LaGuardia.... No more PFT. I believe that goes for the Beech as well as the Saab.

Was this something management elected to do?

 

[T-Gates]

I guess Colgan blew thier training budget for 2003 and still needed pilots. I guess we will see how far they get in 2004 before they go back...

 

[duksrule]

For all of the Anti-PFT guys who swear they will never allow someone who PFTed to get hired, how do you know if they PFTed before the interview? An example is like stated above Colgan was PFT and now isn't. So do all of the guys that get hired to fly there now have to worry about the PFT stigma that may be attached to the place they are legitimately working for? It would suck to get a job there and then later on be apply somewhere else and be persecuted because someone thinks you PFTed when you really didn't.

I guess the real question is how do you know someone PFTed unless the tell you? Is it in their logbook? A magic PFT database that only interview boards and CPs have access to?

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T evidence

I guess the real question is how do you know someone PFTed unless the tell you? Is it in their logbook?

It would be easy to tell a P-F-Ter. Early turbine SIC time in the logbook would be a sure giveaway. The obvious giveaway would be the person's application form and/or resume. Or simply ask during the interview. Employment history is fair game during an interview.

 

[pilotyip]

Early Turbin SIC not true

We have pilot working for us, 1700TT, 1300 MEL, about 1100 SIC in SA-227, it was a real non-PFT job, so there are exceptions to your to above stated "obvious giveaway"

 

[duksrule]

That is what I was talking about. He may be legit but some A$$hat that thinks he P-F-T-ed will try to screw him over one day.

 

[bobbysamd]

Doubtful early turbine SIC, and how to determine its origin

We have pilot working for us, 1700TT, 1300 MEL, about 1100 SIC in SA-227, it was a real non-PFT job, so there are exceptions to your to above stated "obvious giveaway"

There are exceptions to every rule, Yip.

Originally posted by duksrule
That is what I was talking about. He may be legit but some A$$hat that thinks he P-F-T-ed will try to screw him over one day.

Tough problem. How do we solve it?

Originally posted by bobbysamd
imply ask during the interview. Employment history is fair game during an interview.

Now, wouldn't that be the simplest way to clear up that issue? Glad I thought of it.

 

[T-Gates]

Re: Doubtful early turbine SIC, and how to determine its origin

There are exceptions to every rule, Yip.

Sounds like it isn't a rule, merley an observation.

There are quite a few more very lucky people that nabbed SIC jobs with low total time. That I know of...