Pft Help!

[Timebuilder]

Just before I went to Sun n Fun to relax and canvass flight schools for a new instructing job (one that actually had some flight students..) I spoke with Allan Holland, the Chief Instructor at FSI, and while at Lakeland I called Connie Fillipe in their office, to get the latest news.

Allan had said that there was a possibility of hiring "sometime in the second quarter", and Connie said that while that could happen, she thought it unlikely. So, for the near term, no jobs for outside instructors at FSI.

Make some calls. I did find some smaller Florida schools that seemed interested. The trick will be finding a school where you can teach multi engine. That's the only economical way to build time and experience that will eventually help you to get a job. In about 10 months, I may need an SIC for the Lear...but multi time in IFR will be a plus, just like it was for me.

Also, find some schools using Google and climb to 350. Stick all the sites in Favorites, and start calling and faxing. Ask if they know a school who IS hiring, if they are not. I have a folder of faxes I sent. It's almost 1/2 inch thick, and that only took three months.

Be persistent!

 

[publisher]

timebuilder

Timebuilder,

What do climbto350 or Google have to do with it. What am I missing.

The one area that we are agreed, I think, is that other than the multi instructing, boring holes in 172 not going to do much for career.

 

[bobbysamd]

172 Hole Boring

True, Pub, but you've got to start somewhere. You can still teach plenty of instruments in singles and get some great real-world IFR experience (and log actual!), especially down your way in Florida.

Singles are a stepping-stone in the schools I've known. But, yes, you need to get into the multis, and the sooner the better. It seemed that I waited forever to get into the multis at Riddle in '89. It seemed forever to me; in reality, I was upgraded after eight months. Then, I had multi students coming out of my ears. It just takes persistance, time, and patience.

 

[enigma]

Re: timebuilder

Timebuilder,

What do climbto350 or Google have to do with it. What am I missing.

Come now, you know what he means. Google and climbto350 are a way to gather information, on potential employers, utilized by those who don't want to pay someone else for having gathered the names/numbers/addresses.


8N

 

[Timebuilder]

He has your answer, pub.

I built a large group of potential employers by searching for schools and openings. Looking for openings on climbto... and searching for schools using the google search engine made the task easier.

Tough day?

 

[publisher]

Missed point of

First, I am not sure we are stioll on the subject. I did not understand that this fellow was looking for a school to instruct or looking at accelerated programs.

In addition, there are several web sites that have massive lists of schools. You said look for schools who use ???? did not get it. Probably just a semanic thing although I have not seen much on 350.

 

[Ty Webb]

I am a senior at the University of Illinois. I have been instructing while going through school for the past 7 months and now I have a decision coming up as I am about to graduate. What do I do know? [/i].

Hey, this sounds familiar. I was in the same boat in 1990. After finishing up at SIU, I passed down my beer-bong to my roomies, sent out a bazillion resumes, and headed south to FL, Jimmy Buffet tunes playing in my headset, and sure that a regional job awaited me. After all, I had 600tt and 50 multi, and the graduates from the year before had gotten on with various regionals, like Henson, Great Lakes, Mesaba, Midway Connection, and various others. Some had even hired on at Pan Am as F/E's!

Well, Braniff shut down, Eastern and Midway, and their associated feeders, and no one responded to the over 100 resumes I had sent out. My list of likely suspects was not getting much, other than a couple of words of encouragement here and there amidst the deafening silence and outright rejection- just enough to keep hope alive for a while . . . . The few ads in trade-a-plane, when they appeared, were pretty sad: "Cessna 210 pilot wanted, for 135 check operation. Must have 2500tt" or "Learjet Capt wanted, must have 5000tt, 2000 jet, 500 LR". Pretty sad. Things might be bad right now, but they aren't as bad as they were then, when, in addition to having few job openings, there were over 10,000 121 pilots who were competing with us newbies for the same crappy jobs.

The good news is, times will get better again, and until then, you should concentrate on building your time in a legitimate manner, improving your skills and marketability and contacts, so that as the requirements come back down and your skills go up, they will meet and you will be in a position to be hired.

In the meantime, be realistic. You have what- 350 hours? Buying 250 hours of time at Gulfstream would leave you with 600 hours- still not close to being comptetitive for a regional job right now, and you will still only have 350 hours of PIC time. This does not even include the stigma and debt.

Put your checkbook away- you'll need it later to live on sometime during this career, except you may have a family by then . . . just ask any of the Delta, American or UAl guys who are working at Home Depot right now, or the Comair guys who were on strike last year. If you really want to spend some money, consider getting your A&P or get some aerobatics training- anything to give you more knowlege and extra training or experience like that can make the difference- an edge based on experience, not buying a job.

Get a job flying anything you can right now that is legitimate. Network. Build your skills, move up to multi, then the rest will follow. Consider getting a part-time job at a busy FBO, I know a lot of sharp pilots who ended up in the right seat of a jet because they were bright, sharp, enthusiastic, and THERE.

Above all, don't give up. Also- go to http://raa.org and look in their membership directory. Check all of the operators that use equipment requiring F/O's. Pick 20 or 30 of the most likely ones, and make a nuisance of yourself on a regular basis. Fax, call and visit the CP every few weeks, and, quite likely, you'll be at the right place at the right time.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

 

[bobbysamd]

Early 1990s Hiring, or lack thereof

Oh, boy, does that sound familiar! I could have written Ty's post because I was there as well. I love the "the deafening silence and outright rejection." It was so true!! Don't forget, Pan Am failed shortly thereafter. I saw the same frustrating ads in Trade-A-Plane and Air Jobs Digest as well - and by that time I had upwards of 3000 total and circa 800 of multi AND my ATP!

Hiring is very much tied to the economy. The economy will get better because it always does. Furloughees will be recalled and, hopefully, all absorbed, and airlines will be looking for fresh talent. Just hang in and keep spamming your materials.

I like Ty's suggestion of getting an A & P as an excellent additional credential and/or aerobatics training, for some REAL value for your training dollar.

Best of luck to you.

 

[publisher]

OK

For the most part, these guys like Bobby and Timebuilder are the salt of aviation and speak from experience. On the other hand, a young (19 or 20) black lady flew me on a trip in TAB King Air a few months ago. She now flies for a regional.....

 

[bobbysamd]

Thanks, Pub.

 

[Timebuilder]

Sorry for the confusion. In a desire for some brevity, I wrote that he should "search for schools using Google and climbto 350..." when I might have written "search for schools by using Google and climbto350".

Just thought I'd give him a start on finding some instruction leads.

With respect, if we were all black females here, we'd be working for majors.

 

[publisher]

touche

touche!

By the way I always liked web ferret for searching.

The fact is that a number of regionals are still hiring and taking younger inexperienced pilots with a good attitude.

 

[airmack]

PFT article...

I found an interesting article that sheds some light on the question paying for training. Just a quick question to BOBBYSAMD and 350DRIVER. Since you guys seem to have all the answers in reference to getting hired, what airlines do you fly for? WWJD
http://www.jet-jobs.com/articles/payartl.html:p

 

[bobbysamd]

I've been out of aviation for several years. During the years I was in aviation I put forth a great deal of effort trying to get hired, received plenty of advice, attended a seminar or two, and received coaching and sim training. I followed the experiences of my colleagues who did get hired and absorbed it all. I read everything I could about getting hired at airlines and elsewhere. I had five commuter interviews. I was not hired. I worked for Mesa briefly, at its school. I worked for ERAU, FSI, a smaller organization, and was with still another briefly. All were airline-oriented and/or had students with airline aspirations. I learned a great deal from my experiences.

During the time I was seeking airline employment P-F-T sprung up. Not only was I suspicious of a job being offered conditioned on me giving someone money, and big money at that, I considered it demeaning to have to pay for a job, which P-F-T really is.

PS-I read the article by our old friend Kit Darby's organization that Airmack mentioned. The factual background of P-F-T in the article is accurate. Kit acknowledges that P-F-T is controversial, but it would be too much to expect him to write about cons (downsides and other types of "cons") of P-F-T.

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey, Mack:

Look at the source, and the date, before you waste everyone's time with that link.

First of all, it was put out by Air Inc.- 'nuff said.

Second, it was published in 1995. The only thing it has in common with today is that it was wrong then, and it's wrong now.


Third, if you had spent any time on the subject, or even read Bobby's info or any of his posts, you would already have your answer.

And last- it's interesting that you want to know who everyone else works for. Now, let's hear who you WORK for (or who do you rent your seat from)?