Personal Jet, Low Flying LearJet, Thanks Guys!

[SpeedRestricted]

I can see the pilots that fly that plane after them at every FBO "hey aren't you the guys that did that low level flyby out in south florida?" Fortunately they didn't screw it up and get somebody hurt or worse...

 

[wrxpilot]

Is there a grace period to getting them back. I know yrs ago Northwest had a pilot lose his certs. from a "Fly DWI", then retook all the exams and BAM... NW hired him back. But can one begin the recertification process right away or does a certain amount of time need to transpire. How do these revocation proceedings work.

I'm pretty sure the NW crew had their certs revoked rather than suspended. In this particular incident, I don't know what happened to the CA. But I do know the F/O had her certificate suspended. I don't know how long it was for or what else is happening. Like I said, I try not to engage in conversation with this individual, she isn't very nice to talk to.

 

[phr8dawg]

The steamgauge gyros I fly actually have travel-limits listed in the specifications. They can't do a full 360 without recaging and restabilizing and that is very hard on gyros. Having taught acro in a CAP10b for two years, I've seen relatively few pilots who can do perfect barrel rolls. And who could do it in a transport aircraft with a much reduced roll rate perfectly on the first attempt? Again, maybe guys like Tex Johnson.

Check out youtube for his 707 roll. Then go to the collage of crashes where you'll see an SNJ, a P-38, an F-86, and a Spitfire all splatter themselves. Isn't there some Lear crew that survived a roll in the cargo world, but trashed the plane?

I guess this is a hot-button, because of all the fatalities I've seen. Go rent a Pitts, thrash it till ya puke, then go back to +/- 100 feet and 10 degrees.

 

[rumpletumbler]

These pilots demonstrate a total lack of respect for the entire aviation community and as phr8dawg mentioned a disregard for the integrity of the airframe and the lives of future crews/passengers.

Stupid move.

 

[Boch]

lots more to a simple roll than meets the eye.
In a not aerobatic craft DONT DO IT. gyros, engines, motor mounts, FCUs, oil systems, (I could go on) could be adversely affected. you can speek your 1g nonsence all day but I dont buy it.
There is a video on youtube of some guy in a 402 or 414 doing a roll, think of the rotational loads on the 600 lbs in the tip tanks. This is a obvious example.
lastly, I dont want to be the test pilot in the plane you just botched a roll in. Be a pro and dont roll.

 

[Fly91]

lots more to a simple roll than meets the eye.
In a not aerobatic craft DONT DO IT. gyros, engines, motor mounts, FCUs, oil systems, (I could go on) could be adversely affected. you can speek your 1g nonsence all day but I dont buy it.
There is a video on youtube of some guy in a 402 or 414 doing a roll, think of the rotational loads on the 600 lbs in the tip tanks. This is a obvious example.
lastly, I dont want to be the test pilot in the plane you just botched a roll in. Be a pro and dont roll.

If its done right, absolutely nothing can happen to any aircrafts airframe, period. Maybe instruments and other stuff, but not the airframe. But you're right, why argue the issue.

I'll be posting pics tomorrow of a Hawker 800XP that just came into FXE about 14 days ago and its totaled. The skin is wrinkled all the way down both sides and the wing roots are all disfigured. Morons tried to literally "snap roll it" like they were ina Pitts several times with close to FULL WING FUEL....lol. Talk about a-holes. Saw it 2 days ago in the hangar when I got back from a flight, but didn't have my camera. Its totaled and will never fly again. I think it had 1,000 hours on it. The story is hilarious and a perfect example of how doing a roll improperly will destroy a plane that is not built for it. And for the record, I don't think anyone should be rolling corporate jets. Dickhead captain tried to tell everyone he made a hard landing into FXE, yet the tires are all perfect. 9 days later, the co-pilot finally talked...lol.

I'll make a new thread.

 

[J.Otto]

If its done right, absolutely nothing can happen to any aircrafts airframe, period. Maybe instruments and other stuff, but not the airframe. But you're right, why argue the issue.

I'll be posting pics tomorrow of a Hawker 800XP that just came into FXE about 14 days ago and its totaled. The skin is wrinkled all the way down both sides and the wing roots are all disfigured. Morons tried to literally "snap roll it" like they were ina Pitts several times with close to FULL WING FUEL....lol. Talk about a-holes. Saw it 2 days ago in the hangar when I got back from a flight, but didn't have my camera. Its totaled and will never fly again. I think it had 1,000 hours on it. The story is hilarious and a perfect example of how doing a roll improperly will destroy a plane that is not built for it. And for the record, I don't think anyone should be rolling corporate jets. Dickhead captain tried to tell everyone he made a hard landing into FXE, yet the tires are all perfect. 9 days later, the co-pilot finally talked...lol.

I'll make a new thread.

looking forward to these beauties! hard landing... huh? jeeez... and only 1000 hours!

 

[TimsKeeper]

rolling

Back at my first corporate job there was this flight crew that rolled a GIII.

The crew came in laughing it all up and I couldn't figure out what they were so happy about. This particular crew had been flying together for about 20 years (going back to cargo, airlines, etc.) and were usually not too thrilled about flying anymore.

Turns out they thought they got away with it until the D.O. walked into the office the next day and asked,"How did some blue juice get on the ceiling!".

The crew was fired on the spot.

Good times.

 

[TimsKeeper]

...

Thinking about it more it wasn't blue juice, it was something from the rear galley...but still, funny stuff.

 

[Brett Hull]

I've heard a blue juice story. Something about a crew picked up a Falcon 50 out of re-rag in Little Rock and decided to give the roll a shot on the way home. They obviously didn't keep it at 1g and ended up with blue juice on the brand new headliner. Pulled a U-turn and took it right back to LIT.

 

[landlover]

I'll make a new thread.

looking forward to it

 

[Gear Up!]

I heard about that Hawker 800. I would like to see the pics.

 

[SpeedRestricted]

If its done right, absolutely nothing can happen to any aircrafts airframe, period.

true, but the problem is the guys who think they know what they are doing and don't. You get the guys who have rolled something else or rolled the sim and now think they are Bob Hoover... It parallels the classic aviation statistic that a majority of pilots think they have above average flying skills.

 

[clickclickboom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjzr-muZpEw


You can do this routine ALL DAY LONG and not stress a rivet

 

[jafo20]

You can fly GENTLE aerobatics in anything and not hurt the airframe or engines (you may or may not be able to avoid hurting avionics, depending on your equipment). You can even take a turbocahrged, multi-engine recip and, with adequate planning, do a routine without shock-cooling, beating on turbochargers, lugging the engine, or otherwsie shortening the fatigue life of the aircraft. Again, the key is planning, knowledge and awareness. It doesn't take any above average skill to fly aerobatics. Rather than dissecting the factors and hazards associated with a maneuver, laypeople will simply attribute a performance to a "great" pilot.

The problem is that these same laypeople will eventually consider themselves "great" pilots. Then they will try doing these things without adequate planning, knowledge or awareness. So compressor stalls, failure to control power/thrust at high or low attitudes, excessive entry and recovery stresses are seen.

This effect doesn't just apply to aerobatics. The same thing is seen with regard to weather and other factors.

How does this relate to Lear in Florida? Well, they were doing this stuff in plain sight of everyone, so they allowed themselves to be stupid in a position where they could be caught. Did they know what they were doing? Did they only think they knew what they were doing?

 

[rumpletumbler]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjzr-muZpEwYou can do this routine ALL DAY LONG and not stress a rivet

"Bobby Younkin most pilots are not, Yoda says."

I don't think anyone has said nobody could roll an aircraft that wasn't designed for it without over stressing it.

Whether they should or not has already been decided by the manufacturers and the FAA.

The pilots doing aerobatics in these airplanes and the "don't deviate, you might be late" mindset all are very much like the girl who tells you after you've had unprotected sex, "By the way I have Hepatitis C, but don't worry about it, you won't get it."

A disregard for the entire aviation community is also very much at play here, not just the disregard for the lives and families of everyone who might be affected by the eventual bad outcome of this type of behavior.

The mindset of a good pilot is the most difficult thing by far to teach. As we've all seen, you can teach any idiot to perform the mechanics of flying the plane.

 

[wrxpilot]

This whole incident is starting to sound like it's based on unsubstantiated rumors started by disgruntled aviation neighbors with an agenda. I'm assuming the FAA investigation is ongoing, but I think the "paper" that initially reported this is guilty of doing some pretty crappy reporting. The fact that you can't even find the link on their paper outside of the google cache speaks volumes in my mind.

I also heard a lot of second hand information from people in the south FL aviation community, but I really wish I would've left it at that before commenting on it publicly. I think this whole thing stinks somehow...

 

[SpeedRestricted]

This whole incident is starting to sound like it's based on unsubstantiated rumors started by disgruntled aviation neighbors with an agenda.

Are you talking about the roll or just the low flying? Have you looked at these 3 pages of flight profile info? If its real then I'd say this would prove the buzzjob part of it. Anyone know how the paper would have gotten ahold of it? I would not have thought the FAA would make this kind of stuff public, at least this quick. Or is this just some different flightaware-type flight tracker program I'm not familiar with?

http://www.deerfieldbeachobserver.winningcampaignsite.com/f/Lear_Jet_Path.pdf

 

[wrxpilot]

Are you talking about the roll or just the low flying? Have you looked at these 3 pages of flight profile info? If its real then I'd say this would prove the buzzjob part of it. Anyone know how the paper would have gotten ahold of it? I would not have thought the FAA would make this kind of stuff public, at least this quick. Or is this just some different flightaware-type flight tracker program I'm not familiar with?

http://www.deerfieldbeachobserver.winningcampaignsite.com/f/Lear_Jet_Path.pdf

I'm talking about the whole thing. I think your questions are good ones, but at this point I'm just going to butt out and maybe someday we'll hear the whole story.

 

[AeroBoy]

I call shenanigans on this whole story. I found a photo of this Learjet on landing with the same background, except that it has its gear and flaps down. Someone photoshopped the Learjet to appear that it was buzzing Deerfield, but it really wasn't. It was either an April Fool's Day story or a newspaper with a piss-poor editor who can't tell the difference between a real story and a fake one. It might be the latter because the original story was pulled from the website. I hope the publisher also pulled the editor from the newspaper because it was neither funny if it was an April Fool's Day story nor true if reported as such.


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