PCL 3701 Multiple Exam Failures

[Amish RakeFight]

From a separate NTSB Report "Operations/Human Performance Report"

http://www.ntsb.gov/events/2005/Pinnacle/exhibits/317489.pdf

Captain Rhodes

Captain Rhodes received a Notice of Disapproval following his FAA checkride for a certified flight instructor (CFI) certificate, airplane multi-engine, in 1995. He received a second Notice of Disapproval following his FAA checkride for that same certificate on September 4, 1995.

Captain Rhodes received a Notice of Disapproval following his FAA checkride for a CFI certificate, instrument airplane, on October 29, 1995.

Captain Rhodes failed his initial BA-4100 first officer oral at Trans States Airlines on September 25, 1998. On that same date, he failed his initial BA-4100 first officer simulator checkride.…..On May 3, 2000, he received a termination letter from the flight manager at Trans States Airlines.

He received a Notice of Disapproval following his FAA checkride for an airline transport certificate (ATP) and BE-1900 type rating on May 16, 2000.

FO Cesarz

He received a Notice of Disapproval following his FAA checkride for a commercial pilot certificate, multi-engine land, on March 5, 2003.

According to Pinnacle Airlines’ employment and flight records, First Officer Cesarz had accumulated / completed the following flight times and training prior to the accident:

Total flight time: 761 hours
Total CL-65: 222 hours
Total second-in-command (SIC) time: 222 hours

Not too much time, ehhh... 539 TT hired into right seat of a jet.


.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

...so I guess it's okay to fail a few FAA checkrides, fail a few FO upgrades, Fail an ATP and Type rating and STILL MAKE IT TO CAPTAIN flying a Jet. And of course if you haven't had the opportunity to fail all these rides but only your comm.multi, you could still be an FO on a jet with less than 550 hours.


So all you guys who have a few failures under your belt or lack the hours or have credit problems, criminal histories, have no fear...the regionals will still put you in the left seat of a jet.

YOU STILL HAVE A CHANCE TO GET HIRED!

 

[FN FAL]

So all you guys who have a few failures under your belt or lack the hours or have credit problems, criminal histories, have no fear...the regionals will still put you in the left seat of a jet.

YOU STILL HAVE A CHANCE TO GET HIRED!

Just because a guy has a Hispanic last name, it's no reason to assume he has a criminal record.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Just because a guy has a Hispanic last name, it's no reason to assume he has a criminal record.

And I guess you feel he has a credit problem too?


I guess you missed out on reading comprehension in H.S.

 

[blingair]

I had meatloaf for dinner. It was yummy. P.S.- whats that old saying about throwing stones?

 

[ultrarunner]

What is incredible is that PCL hired this idiot after reviewing PRIA. I thought the Captain that killed himself at RDU assured us this wouldn't happen.

Captain Rhodes failed his initial BA-4100 first officer oral at Trans States Airlines on September 25, 1998. On that same date, he failed his initial BA-4100 first officer simulator checkride

Wow, you can fail the oral, then get in the sim?

Actually, now that I think about it, that crash in RDU, and the resulting PRIA legistation only require a review of the records. The legislation doesn't mandate that an airline NOT hired someone with know deficiencies, only that those know deficiencies are reviewed.

This accident makes perfect sense now, and actually should have happend.

 

[ePilot22]

FO Cesarz

Quote:
He received a Notice of Disapproval following his FAA checkride for a commercial pilot certificate, multi-engine land, on March 5, 2003.


Quote:
According to Pinnacle Airlines’ employment and flight records, First Officer Cesarz had accumulated / completed the following flight times and training prior to the accident:

Total flight time: 761 hours
Total CL-65: 222 hours
Total second-in-command (SIC) time: 222 hours

Not too much time, ehhh... 539 TT hired into right seat of a jet.

In the report, Gulfstream Academy is mentioned as a source of new-hires for Pinnacle. They didn't say if either pilot had been hired from there, but looking at these times maybe the FO was hired from Gulfstream.

This accident makes perfect sense now, and actually should have happend.

Ouch, that's harsh! There did seem to be a mentality with some of the pilots at Pinnacle to achive the FL410 mark. The one FO that said "just for a better fuel burn." :erm: . Yeah, right. . I guess he is really concerned with saving the company money on fuel.

Just because a guy has a Hispanic last name, it's no reason to assume he has a criminal record.

...:laugh: ! You're absolutely right!





eP.

 

[Long Time Gone]

Just because a guy has a Hispanic last name, it's no reason to assume he has a criminal record.

Who said anything about the FO being Hispanic?????? Are we a little defensive due to racial issues?????

I thought Rhodes was being addressed, since the "left seat" issue opened. Then again, I don't take every word in my life as racial.

BTW Blingair.....how was the meatloaf????

 

[ePilot22]

Glad to have you back...

Who said anything about the FO being Hispanic?????? Are we a little defensive due to racial issues?????

Read it again and keep in mind who wrote it....



















IT WAS A SMARTA$$ ( FN FAL) comment, i.e. A JOKE! :laugh:




eP.

 

[mar]

Let's tread lightly

It's bad juju to speak ill of the dead.

I think there is a good discussion here about recurring training problems and screwed up hiring practices...

...but you know, that discussion would lead us into speaking ill of management. The Walking Dead.

That would be my choice: Talk trash about management, not other pilots trying to live the dream.

 

[Long Time Gone]

Fair 'nuf

 

[Amish RakeFight]

The only reason I started this thread was because I was amazed at the pattern of failures whether due to inability or a lack of being prepared for your checkride that this individual displayed and YET was STILL HIRED and became a captain.

It makes it seem like standards are not in place and that a track record of failure means nothing.

 

[urflyingme?!]

I'd say failing that many check rides, and even the same ride twice is a big sign there. By passing the third time he only proved that he could perform to standards 33% of the time. eep!

PS Let's all knock on wood after talking trash about how many failiures a dead pilot had.

 

[millhouse21]

A failed checkride at Trans States, especially on the J41, should not be held against anyone. It's almost like a badge of honor.

 

[FN FAL]

Read it again and keep in mind who wrote it....

IT WAS A SMARTA$$ ( FN FAL) comment, i.e. A JOKE! :laugh:

Don't make me get all Joe Pesci "Good Fellas" on your ass.

:beer:

 

[DoinTime]

Ouch, that's harsh! There did seem to be a mentality with some of the pilots at Pinnacle to achive the FL410 mark. The one FO that said "just for a better fuel burn." . Yeah, right. . I guess he is really concerned with saving the company money on fuel.

How would you know? I have over 4000 hours in the CRJ here at PCL and flown with hundreds of FO's. I have never heard of anyone being excited about being at FL410. At best being at that altitude in this tin can is terrifying.

The only reason I started this thread was because I was amazed at the pattern of failures whether due to inability or a lack of being prepared for your checkride that this individual displayed and YET was STILL HIRED and became a captain.

It makes it seem like standards are not in place and that a track record of failure means nothing.

PRIA records can only go back five years. Many of the failures reported in your post were never disclosed to PCL.

Captain upgrades are awarded as a function of seniority. If you have the seniority and can get through the type rating you will become a captain. Merit has nothing to do with the awarding process.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

A failed checkride at Trans States, especially on the J41, should not be held against anyone. It's almost like a badge of honor.

Damn straight!

The ATR side wasn't much better... Personal experience on that one!

 

[ultrarunner]

PRIA records can only go back five years. Many of the failures reported in your post were never disclosed to PCL.

Ahh, that's right.....

Yet another reason to book around RJ operators.

 

[ePilot22]

Do some more...

How would you know? I have over 4000 hours in the CRJ here at PCL and flown with hundreds of FO's. I have never heard of anyone being excited about being at FL410. At best being at that altitude in this tin can is terrifying.

Wow 4000 hours you say...

You might know what I know IF you read the NTSB report. Cause see that's what I did, then I restated the facts from that report.

So spend 1 hour reading it, and then question what I know with my low time.

Thanks for asking.



eP.

 

[DoinTime]

Wow 4000 hours you say...

You might know what I know IF you read the NTSB report. Cause see that's what I did, then I restated the facts from that report.

So spend 1 hour reading it, and then question what I know with my low time.

Thanks for asking.



eP.

Your post referenced multiple pilots and insinuated that it was a common perception at Pinnacle. While the cockpit tapes show that these two pilots in particular had some kind of boner to get to FL410 I have never witness this mentality at Pinnacle. Nobody had ever heard of the "410 club" before this accident investigation. You might be better served to take advise from people that walk the walk instead of reading into some bureaucratic report with your extreamly limited background knowledge.

BTW....I have read the NTSB report and have a greater understanding of what happend (and how) than you ever will.

There did seem to be a mentality with some of the pilots at Pinnacle to achive the FL410 mark.