PBS Frontline expose' on regional airline industry

[CopilotDoug]

Hey Roger, I thought you said the average salary for a Regional airline First Officer was $32,000-$33,000 per year??? Go F yourself!!! you Scumbag!!!!

It would be great to have Roger sit down on TV and debate a qualified industry expert. He knows he'd have to eat his own words so I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

wow....

 

[Erlanger]

Relax everyone! No one will be watching PBS on a Tuesday night at 9pm. This will soon fade and other then a few changes, it will be business as usual.

 

[Mr.B]

ALPA caused this problem. ALPA threw those guys at Colgan under the bus. They did it to preserve to pay and benefits of the senior pilots at legacy carriers. If you're junior at an ALPA carrier, piss off, you're furlough fodder. Regional Jets were a bargaining chip: 50 seats; 70 seats; 76 seats. Do I hear 85? 85, how about 90? 100? Son, you don't want to fly those little planes any way. They don't say Boeing on the side of them, there not REAL airliners. Just take another bite of that ******************** sandwich, I'll be retiring just as soon as I turn 60, no make that 65, then you can upgrade and enjoy this "PROFESSION" that I have preserved for you. Keep paying your dues kiddo.

In the last eight years about 10,000 entry level jobs at the legacies have become career positions at the regionals. That's ALPA!

Hard to argue with this....oh wait, what did I hear from my MEC? "ALPA doesn't furlough pilots!"

 

[suupah]

Suupah, its not my best work but it'll do for now!


Rebecca Shaw — earned an annual salary of just $16,200 at regional carrier Colgan Air, according to testimony by Mary Finnigan, Colgan's vice president for administration. NTSB officials also noted that Shaw once moonlighted in a coffee shop while working for the Virginia-based airline.

Captains at Colgan — like Shaw's partner, Marvin Renslow — typically earn between $50,000 and $53,000, according to the board.

Hey Roger, I thought you said the average salary for a Regional airline First Officer was $32,000-$33,000 per year??? Go F yourself!!! you Scumbag!!!!

ha ha, lets get the facts out... ha ha. good one!!

 

[Nevets]

What is there to debate? Safety isn't a top priority. When Pay and Benefits needs aren't met...the interview stops right there.

And still nothing to disprove my statement that disproved that ALPA is not worthless. You said ALPA is worthless. I showed you how they are not. And now you don't want to debate my rebutal because you don't have anything to counter.

Go back and reread your class notes on Maslow. You're unintentionally agreeing with me (and you're right to do so). Glad we can see eye to eye on some issues.

The point is that if you were flying Jennys for E.L. Chord and seeing your peers dying in an aircraft accidents before you turned 40 you would be worried about safety. We all know that the likes of JO, Lorenzo, and the RAA president wouldn't be ok with eroding safety if it meant more money for them?

Safety will always be the number one issue. That is not to disagree with you on pay. But like I said, until you can admit that ALPA is not worthless purely on its safety enhancements of piloting, then there is no need to debate other issues ALPA tries to help such as pay.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Hey Roger, I thought you said the average salary for a Regional airline First Officer was $32,000-$33,000 per year??? Go F yourself!!! you Scumbag!!!!

Average: the sum of a set of numbers divided by the count of numbers in the set


Most first officers make a lot more than she did, especially now that the industry is full of 5 - 6 year first officers. Some of my friends make over $50,000 as an FO.

$32,000 to $33,000 for an average sounds about right, and is quite possibly low due to the fact that airlines are downgrading and not hiring.

It is a moving target though. When everyone is hiring and upgrading a lot, the average goes down because the higher paid first officers are upgrading to captains, and there are more of the first year pay people out there.

Where are there people earning first year pay right now? I know most places haven't hired in a couple of years, and/or have furloughed.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Discussion during today’s National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) Sunshine Meeting on the Colgan Air Flight 3407 accident highlighted many long-standing aviation safety priorities of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), including identifying a clear need to improve pilot screening, training, and mentoring, and modernize flight-time/duty-time regulations for airline pilots. However, the Board ignored the bulk of these factors in its statement of probable cause.
“We are deeply disappointed that the NTSB’s probable cause statement abandoned the systems approach to accident investigation that the International Civil Aviation Organization and other agencies around the world are adopting,” said Capt. John Prater, ALPA’s president. “During its discussions, the Board identified the need to improve training, develop experience, improve cockpit displays, enhance oversight, and provide better weather information to crews. However, the statement of probable cause failed to fully and directly acknowledge the many factors that contributed to this accident. Creating a safer industry means looking at all the reasons why this tragedy occurred and taking aggressive action to ensure nothing similar happens again.”
“With today’s report, the Board has missed a valuable opportunity to highlight the many factors that combined to cause this tragedy,” said Prater. “The conclusion of simple pilot error ignores the multitude of contributing factors in every accident. The single, narrow focus of the probable cause statement issued today is an unfortunate move backward away from that goal.”
For decades, ALPA has advocated for improved pilot training that reflects all aspects of being a professional airline pilot. Adequate training is particularly important for unexpected, abnormal, and potentially hazardous situations. Crew Resource Management and command training are also essential, so that pilots learn the judgment and leadership skills that they need to manage their work in the cockpit.
“Training is an investment in safety, but it is expensive and the current structure of our industry economically penalizes those airline managements that seek to do more than the minimum training required,” said Capt. Paul Rice, ALPA’s first vice-president. “While we’ve seen encouraging progress in improving pilot training and developing tailored programs that reflect pilots’ skills and experience, our industry must do much more to achieve the highest training standards possible.”
In addition, ALPA has long urged the FAA to create new flight-time and duty-time and minimum rest requirements for all types of flying, from long-haul international to multi-leg domestic. While the Association has worked for decades to address pilot fatigue, ALPA pilots have most recently participated in the FAA’s Aviation Rulemaking Committee, which was charged with making recommendations for updating the rules.
“The FAA’s timeline for modernizing airline pilots’ flight-time and duty-time has slipped from the original target,” continued Prater. “For years, ALPA has been calling for science-based rules that apply equally to all operations, including domestic, international, and supplemental flying. Our passengers and crews deserve to have a final rule in place before the end of 2010.”
ALPA also emphasizes airline management’s role and responsibility in developing a corporate culture centered on safety and that is designed to detect trends and implement solutions to enhance safety.
“Airline management plays a pivotal role in setting the tone for safety and professionalism at an individual airline,” said Capt. Rory Kay, ALPA’s Executive Air Safety Chairman. “Pilots, and all employees, must feel confident that they can report issues through non-punitive safety reporting programs without fear of retribution, as part of a corporate culture that is firmly focused on creating the safest possible flight operations.”
Given ALPA’s long-standing efforts to continuously enhance professionalism among our members and throughout the industry, we fully expect to make a valuable contribution to the NTSB’s upcoming forum on pilot and air traffic controller excellence that was announced at today’s hearing.
The Association adopted its Code of Ethics in 1956. Since then, the Association has taken many actions to promote the highest possible standards of conduct for airline pilots. Nearly all ALPA-represented pilot groups have Professional Standards Committees charged with maintaining the highest degree of professional conduct. In September 2009, ALPA released a white paper titled “Producing a Professional Airline Pilot” that frames the Association’s recommendations for candidate screening, hiring, training, and mentoring.
“When management supports professional standards committees, these groups can make a significant contribution to advancing safety at the airline and even establish best practices for the industry,” said Rice. “It is unfortunate that many airline managements still fail to seize the opportunity to work with ALPA on professional standards and other safety initiatives, but we’ve seen some positive developments in the past year.”
“Recently, Colgan Air has worked together with its pilots to address safety issues and capitalize on safety reporting programs as a way to identify and solve issues before accidents or incidents occur,” said Capt. Mark Segaloff, chairman of the Colgan pilots’ chapter of ALPA. “We are seeing signs of progress and look forward to future collaborative efforts at Colgan Air.”

.....

 

[CopilotDoug]

And still nothing to disprove my statement that disproved that ALPA is not worthless. You said ALPA is worthless. I showed you how they are not. And now you don't want to debate my rebutal because you don't have anything to counter.

There is nothing to counter. This is like a car with the the best safety ratings in the industry, then you find out it doesn't run.

Do the award winning safety features matter when the car can't fulfill it's purpose?

The industry is faltering as a means to an end.

 

[CopilotDoug]

.....

Who were these ALPA officers issuing these statements to?