PBS Frontline expose' on regional airline industry

[WayBack]

Do you get it?

Denial, get of out it.

 

[Balou]

16 hour duty days should be criminal ! Pilots should be limited to 9-10 hours duty and get paid every hour while on duty !! The last hours of a long duty day at night is a very dangourous situation regardless of flight hours or training ! When anyone is tired they just dont think as well or even react the way they normally would if they were well rested and alert !

 

[CX880]

ALPA created this situation. They fought against the B scale, yet in the end, what did they help create, a B scale. I don't even know if ALPA realizes what they have done. This used to be mainline flying on F100's, DC9's and like types. I have roots in the regionals and know that you earn your pay there. However, the pay and benefits has needed to be increased drastic amounts for years. This is where I fault ALPA.

Your right. It's just amazing that ALPA is ok with this and has been for decades. I still think they equate CRJ flying to flying a Metro.

 

[gnx99]

16 hour duty days should be criminal ! Pilots should be limited to 9-10 hours duty and get paid every hour while on duty !! The last hours of a long duty day at night is a very dangourous situation regardless of flight hours or training ! When anyone is tired they just dont think as well or even react the way they normally would if they were well rested and alert !

This one always makes me shake my head in disgust:

121.465 (b)(1) and in probably every airline FOM out there:
"No certificate holder conducting domestic or flag operations may schedule a dispatcher for more than 10 consecutive hours of duty"

 

[lookin4better]

if you can't be part of the solution...be part of the problem...seems like it is a bit backwards...regionals pilots wanting to work for the mainline but then take jobs that undercut the mainline flying but then hope to work for the mainline....weird.

+1!!!!

 

[doh]

Roger and I agree that there can only be one regulator. Right now there are many. Each flight department at each carrier and their respective POI regulate the safety of the system. That is too many. One operating certificate and only one. I'm sure Roger would agree!

 

[flyboyzii]

Story on AOL

http://www.gadling.com/2010/02/09/p...rontline-episode-regional-airlines-dont-want/

Found this on AOL this morning. Same story but at least the story is kind of making the news cycle in other areas rather than just on PBS.

 

[WayBack]

Roger and I agree that there can only be one regulator. Right now there are many. Each flight department at each carrier and their respective POI regulate the safety of the system. That is too many. One operating certificate and only one. I'm sure Roger would agree!

I agree, but it will never happen. The politics behind all of it are too much.

 

[buscap]

Awfully nice of Prater to take part in a total hack job piece of reporting. Absolutely no mention in the piece about the vast differences between many of the regionals. We're all lumped into the same bottom feeding untrained mess.

While not perfect, I would put ASA's training department and safety programs up against that of any carrier out there.

But that's how reporting goes. Prater should be ashamed for sitting his JABA THE HUT fat butt in front of the camera for a program which was going to unfairly defame many dues paying pilots.

Bad ALPA boss!! Bad bad ALPA Boss!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Awfully nice of Prater to take part in a total hack job piece of reporting. Absolutely no mention in the piece about the vast differences between many of the regionals. We're all lumped into the same bottom feeding untrained mess.

While not perfect, I would put ASA's training department and safety programs up against that of any carrier out there.

But that's how reporting goes. Prater should be ashamed for sitting his JABA THE HUT fat butt in front of the camera for a program which was going to unfairly defame many dues paying pilots.

Bad ALPA boss!! Bad bad ALPA Boss!!

Do you favor brand flying be done by the major airline pilots or not? If so, how should it be done? And will be there be some pain?

For example... Say UAL/CAL/DAL said we are going to do the 76+ seat flying... we'll take the e-190s and fly them at mainline...

So managment says 'We got regional airlines that will fly them for regional rates, so if you mainline guys want them... here are the rates"

So mainline pilots agree to fly the regional jets at regional rates...

good, bad, ugly?

 

[buscap]

Do you favor brand flying be done by the major airline pilots or not? If so, how should it be done? And will be there be some pain?

For example... Say UAL/CAL/DAL said we are going to do the 76+ seat flying... we'll take the e-190s and fly them at mainline...

So managment says 'We got regional airlines that will fly them for regional rates, so if you mainline guys want them... here are the rates"

So mainline pilots agree to fly the regional jets at regional rates...

good, bad, ugly?

Not really relevant to my post, but I'll bite.

Being in the seniority position I am, I would be all for it, so long as my butt goes with the plane. But I see no safety value or "taking it back" value in just taking the cream of the regional planes into the majors. So long as a single non-mainline puddle jumper is flying with a mainline logo on it, there will be whipsaw between the regionals and mainline.

If the mainline guys want the 90s or 76s or whatever, they need to take it all in house and deal with that little piece-of-crap prop or RJ being how you start your career at Continental, Delta, American, or United.

So long as any scope is allowed, there will be the problems every mainline pilot is gnashing their teeth about. Management will wave some carrot or threaten with some stick and the senior guys will bite. Next thing you know, we're right back where we started.

So that's my two cents. Take it all, with something besides a straight staple, or hands off!!

And they'll just have to put up with my lazy butt down here flying my shiny jet for lower rates and bringing down the whole industry!!!

 

[sweptback]

Awfully nice of Prater to take part in a total hack job piece of reporting. Absolutely no mention in the piece about the vast differences between many of the regionals. We're all lumped into the same bottom feeding untrained mess.

While not perfect, I would put ASA's training department and safety programs up against that of any carrier out there.

But that's how reporting goes. Prater should be ashamed for sitting his JABA THE HUT fat butt in front of the camera for a program which was going to unfairly defame many dues paying pilots.

Bad ALPA boss!! Bad bad ALPA Boss!!

I am not defending anybody here, but who knows what he said. For all we know he could have gone on a 20 minute tangent about exactly what you wanted him to say, but all that made it was the 30 second soundbite.

News organizations have a habit of cutting out most of the interview and showing only the pieces that prove their points.

I'm sure that Prater knew exactly what he was getting himself into, but it would have looked horrible if ALPA declined to comment on the piece.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Sweptback is absolutely correct. What Prater said was absolutely accurate at many regional airlines. While all of these problems do not apply at all regionals, by raising up the standards at the bottom of the industry we help everyone. Scope and regional flying are products of ALPA's failure to do exactly that in the past. I for one applaud Prater for helping make substandard working conditions known. As pilots we cannot let our sense of "corporate pride" overcome our duty to improve levels of safety across the profession. Many of the problems stated in the program (namely pilot experience and pressure to fly in bad weather) aren't present at my regional, but that's ok. I am willing to endure the nervous glares of a few passengers in exchange for possbility of improving the level of safety across the industry.

What I found most startling was how both Cohen and Bethune stated, even bragged, about the lower costs at the regionals due to "different standards." Wait a minute? You hit the ground just as hard in a little airplane as you do in a big one. Different standards? Not for me... My responsibility to one passenger is the same as my responsibility to 350. It is only a question of degree. That attitude from management is what needs to change before anything else.

 

[J32driver]

What I found most startling was how both Cohen and Bethune stated, even bragged, about the lower costs at the regionals due to "different standards."

I think that was the most disappointing comment of the show. I was actually SHOCKED to hear those words coming out of Bethune's mouth.

 

[Nevets]

As for the guy who was advocating for ALPA, c'mon dude. If safety was their #1 concern, they'd advocate for better regional pay and better schedules and less 16 hr duty and 6 leg days, which could lead to more disposable income, which could get people off of crew room couches and OVER crowded crashpads, which would lead to better rested pilots, which would lead to less fatigued pilots, which could prevent potentially fatal situations!!!!!!!

They are advocating for better pay, better schedules, and less 16 hour duty days.

Still not sure why Rez and Nevets can't figure how it is that ALPA is to thank for the low wages. Because it isn't the whole pilot group in there "negotiating" the wages.
They also don't see the connection between crap pay and safety. But of course, it's never ALPA's fault.

Why would ALPA want low wages? That means less dues money, right? And according to you, ALPA is just interested in 2%. Yeah, ALPA wants all pilots to get paid crap. How is that for sarcasm?

Your right. It's just amazing that ALPA is ok with this and has been for decades. I still think they equate CRJ flying to flying a Metro.

ALPA has finally turned the corner on this. ALPA now has the mentality that flying a jet is flying a jet and its not different if its a 737 or a CRJ.