Pay: Should Delta/United get raises or SWA pilots take a paycut?

[Flopgut]

I define too much pay as represented in the old legacy contracts. They BK'd their own companies.

Companies do negotiate with their own unions but are sometimes handcuffed by agressive union actions and have no choice. Take United back in the early 2000's for example. I completed my senior paper at Embry Riddle analyzing the United slowdown and came up with this conclusion. Guess what, I got a A on it.

People forget that UAL's attempt to buy USAir was part of the equation in that 2000 contract. UAL mgt would not listen to the employees who told them it would wreck the airline. Look now at where USAir ended up, and obviously, the UAL pilots were right.

BTW, PBS would be a bad thing for SWA pilots.

 

[PCL_128]

40% of AirTran pilots that are enjoying your money losing Reserve system this month .... Strongly disagree that you have a clue how to make pilots money. It's a wash, including the pay raise.

Of course it's a wash, which is exactly what was expected. The pay for reserves was a wash, but the QOL improvement was huge.

Lee Moak loves PBS.

Not a fan of Moak, but if he loves PBS, then I agree with him on that. The Delta pilots sure seem to like it, and the NWA pilots loved it before them.

 

[slaquer5]

Of course it's a wash, which is exactly what was expected. The pay for reserves was a wash, but the QOL improvement was huge.



Not a fan of Moak, but if he loves PBS, then I agree with him on that. The Delta pilots sure seem to like it, and the NWA pilots loved it before them.

No the Delta pilots do not love it, it was forced upon them. They liked there old bidding.

 

[PCL_128]

No the Delta pilots do not love it, it was forced upon them. They liked there old bidding.

Yes, I'm sure you talk to more Delta pilots that someone who lives in and is based in Atlanta.

 

[Tripower455]

A PBS system that would be a benefit to the pilots of SWA would never get past management.

The devil is in the details, and we have a lousy track record of voting things in to see what in them. We would be so hosed by PBS that it would take years to figure out all the different ways we got screwed, both pay and QOL wise. IMHO of course....

 

[mamba20]

We should ALL get pay raises. . . . I don't see any room for discussion on this.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

No the Delta pilots do not love it, it was forced upon them. They liked there old bidding.

Patently False......

 

[Tanker Clown]

Back on topic....

Delta pilots will get a pay cut before a pay raise. It's in their DNA to roll over.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

The main reason that PBS saves money is month-to-month integration. It eliminates the integration conflicts that cause companies to have to artificially inflate staffing to cover those first few days of the month with pilots that they really don't need for the rest of the month. SWA could certainly gain efficiencies with PBS.



From what I've heard from the guys at ASA, their PBS system hasn't negatively affected vacation, and might have actually improved it.

Fact.

 

[General Lee]

No the Delta pilots do not love it, it was forced upon them. They liked there old bidding.

As Lumberg stated, WRONG. If you are senior (like me) in category, it's FANTASTIC. I get pretty much what I want, which is 1 Europe 3 day and a few South America trips per month in the Winter, and opposite in the Summer.

What isn't good (as a result of BK), is trip touching is gone when you have vacation, etc, and PBS will not allow trips to touch training either. It will just skip the trip you wanted until the one that fits around training is found, and award you that. It is very "efficient", which isn't great sometimes.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Whataburger]

As Lumberg stated, WRONG. If you are senior (like me) in category, it's FANTASTIC. I get pretty much what I want, which is 1 Europe 3 day and a few South America trips per month in the Winter, and opposite in the Summer.

What isn't good (as a result of BK), is trip touching is gone when you have vacation, etc, and PBS will not allow trips to touch training either. It will just skip the trip you wanted until the one that fits around training is found, and award you that. It is very "efficient", which isn't great sometimes.



Bye Bye---General Lee

One 3-day plus a "few" 3-days is 12 days of work. How many "credits" would a big-timer heavy 767 driver expect with 12 days of work?

 

[PCL_128]

A PBS system that would be a benefit to the pilots of SWA would never get past management.

That may be true, which is the same reason we never would have seen it at AirTran. A good PBS requires lots of contractual restrictions and union control over the bidding process. If a company isn't willing to let go of some of that control, then PBS can be a nightmare (CAL's PBS for example). But if they're willing, then PBS is a far superior system.

 

[Scoot 11]

Back on topic....

Delta pilots will get a pay cut before a pay raise. It's in their DNA to roll over.

Did a Delta pilot do your wife and/or sister or something?
Do you ever have anything positive to say, or do you just enjoy being a total dickhead?

 

[waveflyer]

Not to defend tank scoot- but I think dalpa owes the industry a few positives before we get off their back after rolling over on 90 seaters,
I do wish you good luck and support you standing strong and leapfrogging SWA and continued reduction of rj's -

 

[slaquer5]

Back on topic....

Delta pilots will get a pay cut before a pay raise. It's in their DNA to roll over.

Welcome back,