Pay for training. oops..hotels!

Airpiraterob

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theres officially not much pay for training out there, however some digging around reveals the pay for hotel deal. ACA will cost you 4 grand a month to stay in the hotel during training. i can understnad if thats your domicile, simply get an apartment as soon as possible. however, if its not your domicile in the end. youre screwed. with the time theyre suggesting it takes to train now, <being 7 weeks+ as told to me by a friend thats there now due to sim backups> i dont have 7 grand to drop , especially when im not working at that particular time. i dont have any parents that want to bankroll me. im trying to get out of a mediocre paying job as it is. i dont mind taking a pay cut to go work for a regional, but i cant pay a grand a week AND then take a pay cut. how will i pay off the credit card ill be putting all this on with a pay cut??

so, WHO OUT THERE PICKS UP YOUR HOTEL COSTS FOR TNG?

ramen only eats the lining off your stomach for so long. but at least peanut butter's half life is indeffinite.

(Sorry Mr. Interview guy, i'd loove to accept the class date, but ill have to stay another year where i am so i can afford to go to your ground-school.)
:eek:
 

RichO

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I'm still new, but I think the word your looking for is "Crash Pad"....you know, where a bunch of the other people in training and you get an apartment, or even better you find an already established crash pad to live in.......I hear it can be as little as a couple of hundred a month.....I wouldn't worry too much about it, just check this stuff out I'm sure you can find something that will work with your budget.........
 
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328dude

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PSA picks up the tab for everything except food. You will get your monthly guarantee of 72 hours at 20.00 bucks an hour plus 1.45 perdiem for 24 hours as long as your training last's.

Although US Air's future is uncertain, PSA's training is easy on the wallet for the 5 weeks your in training. 3 weeks in Dayton and two in Dallas for the sim.
 

Bluto

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Airpiraterob,
How do you figure $7,000? $4,000/month? Maybe if you want to stay at the Ritz. A certain hotel in the DIA area can be had for $59/day. Hmmm, lets see. $59 x 7 days in a week x 7 weeks for training = $2891.
Now, cut that in half if you get a roommate. = $1445.50 I believe ACA pays $200 per week during training. Making your hotel stay cost you.........$45.50 for 7 weeks, if you get a roommate. Now, I agree, there are more important things to concern yourself with while in groundschool. However, Execjet doesn't pay your hotel during training, many companies don't. If you don't want to take the job, don't. There are plenty of people out there who can afford an extra $45.50 over 2 months. There's a lot of garbage out there you'll have to deal with at a regional. But equating this to dropping $10k on BE1900 training is a little irresponsible if you ask me. Any ACA employees, please correct me if my numbers are wrong.
 

popilot78

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I agree Bluto.
airpiraterob, why stay in a hotel? find a crash pad for 150-200/month. they are out there. live thriftely for a coule of months. good luck.
 

Dep676

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I think the point he is trying to make is that why should you have to pay for anything but food while you are in training. 200 a week what a deal. Man I couldn't wait to get on with a deal like that. That doesn't even pay for my house payment. Let alone grogercies for my wife and kids and utilities. Then you have to pay for a "crash pad" out of that. That's a bunch of crap. If the unions are so willing to help you out. Which I haven't seen yet. They would have in the contract the company has to provide housing during training and your montly min pay (ie. 72 hours) or what ever the min is for that airline. Because even after you get out of training and flying the line you still can't afford anything. The big strike at Comair didn't do nothing except get the pay to poverty instead of below proverty. Let's all celebrate that. They are buying the multi-million dollar jets but can't pay the people flying them squat. Wonder who's wallets getting fatter? The CEO maybe cause it isn't the pilots. :mad:
 

RubberDuck

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Does ASA pay for a place to stay while your in school?

Thanks
 

shamrock

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ASA puts you up at the Red Roof across the street from the HQ and FlightSafety and pays you you're guarantee of 75 hours/month while in training.
 

profjetpilot

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A regional F/O is an entry-level position.
A regional F/O gets entry-level pay.
Do they deserve more? YES.
Will they get more? NO.

In the past, You'd rarely see someone with a good amount of experience (more than 2000 hours) even waste their time with a regional for that reason. Nowadays, The pilot market is so saturated with pilots from failed cargo companies, Furloughs, corporate,etc.

The regional airlines are resuming their previous hiring practices which means the pilot pays for as much as the company can reasonably put on him. They do this, because they can!!! There is nothing that a contract can do for these new hires. The control belongs entirely with management. I've seen the airline I fly for go back and forth between making them pay, and not making them pay. It is frustrating knowing that the quality of our F/O is based on whether they had a large enough bank account to pay for their training. In many cases the pilots we get are so deeply in debt, because they did'nt have a rich family. They struggle just to pay for food. I wish someone had told them that paying your dues was'nt a literal term.

The blame cannot be put on management. It is entirely the Pilots fault. If nobody paid for company training,hotel,etc. we would'nt be having these problems. It all started when that first desperate pilots said,"Yes I'll absorb that cost". It snowballed to make an industrywide acceptable practice. There are so many pilots out there that PFT'd that nothing will be done to stop it now. The government could make it illegal, but for some reason they dont. The dept of labor could step in and outlaw the practice. All the pilot unions could step in and blacklist/boycott those who choose to do it, but they dont!!

If you can't tell I am a little frustrated with the whole pratice!! It takes jobs away from our fellow professional aviators who are out of work.
 

RubberDuck

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I know this is a question that is asked all the time but I cant seem to find any prior posts as to starting pay at ASA. And is that the same hourly amount guaranteed while in school?














Don't tell Mom I'm a Pilot, she thinks I play piano in a whorehouse.
 

C-5 MEM

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PAY

At ACA I have checked about a crashpad. One is going to run me about 240/month. Thats not to bad, but its a job. You have to look at making sacrifices. Remember when and that is if you did, while being a flight instructor you paid your dues while flying in the hot summer months. Well, this is another way of paying your dues again. I know pilots in my unit who went to work for Fed Ex. The had to take a pay cut while going into training. I know ACA and the others are not Fed EX, but they had to adjust there pay. It would be nice if you lived in for example Va. area where you can go in to school and live at home, but this is not the real world.

If you want to go to the regionals, I say go for it, but you will have to make some reductions in your life style for a year or two.
 

Dep676

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profjetpilot said:
[
The blame cannot be put on management. It is entirely the Pilots fault. If nobody paid for company training,hotel,etc. we would'nt be having these problems. ]
I agree with some of this. But why can't you blame management? They can have the starting pay be higher if they wanted. But that would take away from their paycheck. And they don't deserve what they get paid anyway. What do they do besides find ways to cheat pilot and all the workers out of thier money and find excuses to get welfare money from the government. So I do agree that the pilots need to stand up and not work for these kind of wages. But they won't anytime soon. To work for these wages it may be possible if you are single and live on peanut butter and jelly and live in your car.
 

Airpiraterob

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hmm, continuations...

so a crashpad.

preferably, id rather worry about how much knowlege i can absorb in the training rather than what crashpad has an opening.

groundschool by no means youve made it yet. you have to make it through the whole ordeal. mess up by suddenly forgetting how to sleep, or get mr.washout the instructor, and thats it. concentration is out the window. yeah im not above incurring some costs. food and enough saved up for the usual payments owed on school/truck loans/bills and food. but **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed if i have to pay lots of monies, especially with a crashpad with guys who show up that i dont know drinking and sleeping wherever with some attendant they brought home. <believe me i know, several college friends did this....one told me "like shootin fish in a barrel">

i just want to show up, study, get it done, get on a line. is that too much to ask? how can it be? theres a differnece between finishing, finishing with 100%, and F'n kicking ass!. i prefer choice 3. none less.

however if i get a piece of whats brought home i might change my mind. heh.

where ACA trains theres a PREFERED hotel there next to the place. <i'm just using them as an example since i know the more about tehm than others> thats near 500 a week cause its-a-so-a nice-a. theres other places but with the hours required to be put in, id rather not need to worry about anything extraneous. the roach motel or the hyatt. i dont care. just leave my pocket book out of that equation.

i am flying, but i need out. this mild winter that we had wont be around again. freight takes no prisoners. specially with no autopilot at 15k

Is there anyone whose parents put them through groundschool and wouldnt mind paying for me? SOMEONE! PAY MY DUES!
 

chperplt

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It's pretty sad when my little rinky dink 121 outfit with 20 airplanes will put you up in a hotel during training, and even pay you 50 bucks a day during training, and a company as large as ACA won't do the same.
 

C-5 MEM

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PAY FOR TRAINING

I have been flying corporate in many turboprop and turbojets. Now being in charge of the flight department I see things a bit different.
Where we fly there are two flight school with about 30-40 pilots building time. We hired 3 part time pilots and paid them 150 dollars per day. Then we started getting pilots who said "He I will fly for free just to build my time up". The owner found this out and told me to cut lose the part time guys and use those pilots who fly for free.
This is almost the same as in the regionals. You have guys/gals who will do anything to fly. I am not saying the right or wrong. Just when you have a large pool of pilots to get the upper management can do what they want. Just remember berfore 9-11. Pilots going through training without training bonds. I recall 3 years ago you had to sign a letter of agreement with a company to work for them. Reason being there were large number of pilots out there. When the pilots started to dry up, meaning the experience, the airlines dropped there training contracts.
We are just at that same road again.
 

Airpiraterob

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some quotes used often

appropriate movie quotes for this subject.

-right in the lumber yard danny
and
-well the world needs ditch diggers too!
 

LearLove

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uhmmmm no

profjetpilot said:

"The regional airlines are resuming their previous hiring practices which means the pilot pays for as much as the company can reasonably put on him. They do this, because they can!!! There is nothing that a contract can do for these new hires. The control belongs entirely with management."


actually at allegheny they tried to do this in early and mid 90's and the PILOT GROUP voted it down once and said flat out no the second time, but pay no attention to us "unqualified prop pilots" at allegheny airlines, oops i mean "allegheny cost center".
 
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shamrock

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RubberDuck said:
I know this is a question that is asked all the time but I cant seem to find any prior posts as to starting pay at ASA. And is that the same hourly amount guaranteed while in school?
$19.02/hour, 75 hours/month while in training AND on line first year.
 

Airpiraterob

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allegheney

ive had a few friends go through there. some are still there but i wasnt too impressed with what they had to say to me about everything.

Anyone else otu there with recommendations on where to go so i dont have P-F-T or pay for hotels (P-F-H ?) when i do train?

just a poor dog of freight still trying to live a little. mmm...my peanut butter sandwich is fabulolus for dinner. even better than when i had it for lunch today ;> but i dont mind. that and generic cheeto's are quite good.
 

RubberDuck

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Thanks Shamrock,

Is there any perdium with that 19.02?

Just trying to figure out if I can bite the bullet for a year...
 
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