Pacific Jet?

[RJFlyer]

Does anyone know anything about Pacific Jet, based in LA? Their website is pretty vague...

 

[English]

Is that the company in VNY involved in the nasty lawsuit over noisy takeoffs?

 

[Casper]

pacific jet

I have a friend that just got hired there, I have been banging on their door for a few weeks now, the person you need to talk to is Sherry Diamond she does all the hiring, she flys as well so you need to call between 10:00 am and 12:00 pm this is what I have been told. I also know that they fly Lears and G's my friend got hired on the premis that he will buy his own type rating he is at Simuflight as we speak I think he spent around $ 13,000 for this Type.

Good Luck..

 

[G100driver]

I also know that they fly Lears and G's my friend got hired on the premis that he will buy his own type rating he is at Simuflight as we speak I think he spent around $ 13,000 for this Type.

I think that the next time we need to charter from Pac Jet I will drop them from my list of acceptable outfits.

I have been banging on their door for a few weeks now

Casper, friends do not let friends screw their buddies out of a job. You should take a closer look at your friend list.

 

[Casper]

pacific jet

Hey Guy,
lets just say that it does not matter who is at what Company whether you have a friend there or not at the end of the day if you don't have a job then what can you do ? you can be recomended by a 747 captain with 20,000 hours but if they don't need you oh well just move on, but if you have 12 to 15 grand to spend on a lear type Rating then lucky you I just can't spend this kind of dough I have my childern to worry about first, as for my list of friends don't worry my friends and I have gone back years and we have all done for each other and this includes my Buddy at Pacific, if it was not for him I would not have built 1/2 the multi time that I have.

 

[G100driver]

Casper, it is obvious that you are a little naive. It is not a matter of "luck" that you can spend 15 grand on a type rating. It is a matter of class, style and respect.

Companies that require their pilots to buy their jobs are lowest of the bottom feeders. They are taking advantage of poor economic times for pilots and hiring not the most qualified, but those with economic advantage. This cheapens OUR industry. This system forces you to consider feeding your childeren or getting your 1st job in a jet. Sounds like a pretty poor choice to me.

Last time you went for a non aviation job interview(assuming that you were qualifed), did your prospective employer tell you that you are hired, but you must pay for your own training. You would probalbly walk out the door. Hiring the best qualified person means that you are will to make an INVESTMENT into your employees. If they require you to pay, you can guarantee they will treat you poorly.

Look, I have never met your friend and I am sure he is a decent guy. I just know that your friend has taken one small step in the contiuing degradation of our profession. Like I say, I will not use Pac Jet for our supplemental charter and I will "86" all resumes with Pac Jet listed. Many pilots view people who PFT in the same line as they do SCABS. You will reap what you sew.

Good luck.

 

[CaSyndrm]

I always find it interesting to read peoples opinions on the PFT issue. In reading and talking to people I find it interesting that most of these people who are against PFT have resumes on file at Southwest Airlines and don't include them in the discussion.

I'm just wondering if G100 driver has a resume on file at SWA or anybody that disagrees with PFT has one on file at SWA?

 

[G100driver]

I'm just wondering if G100 driver has a resume on file at SWA or anybody that disagrees with PFT has one on file at SWA?

No, I do not. It make for interesting debate. For some reason SWA has managed to escape this by only hiring "qualifed" applicants. They do not hire only hire someone on their abilty to pay, but on their expirence (1000 hours PIC turbine, ect.). They also treat there employees well. It still does not make it right though. Makes for good debate, though.

 

[FL350]

There are two sides

First I will tell you that I think PFT is a lousy deal but...

I must say that pilots have, in part, done it to themselves. When a pilot hires on with a company and has his training paid for, I think he owes the company at least one year of good service. After that, he is free to go. PFT started because owners and operators could not count on pilots sticking around long enough to get there training investment back out of the pilot through his service to the company. So, before all of you PFT police get on your soap box, you might want to think about whether or not you have ever left a company high and dry after they invested some money in you. If you haven't - preach on. If you have, then you are no better than the guy paying for his own Lear type.

 

[G100driver]

PFT started because owners and operators could not count on pilots sticking around long enough to get there training investment back out of the pilot through his service to the company

Training costs are a very small part of a 1.5 million budget that it takes to operate a mid-sized jet. If owners and operators would treat their employees with respect and pay them an industry standard wage, then perhaps the pilots would not leave. This means, days off, decent accomadations on the road, no nickle and diming meals and expenses. If you trust your pilots to fly your airplane, then you trust them to do the right thing when it comes to expenses.

If you haven't - preach on.

I haven't, so pass the soap box

 

[FL350]

You take the good with the bad...

Training costs are a very small part of a 1.5 million budget that it takes to operate a mid-sized jet. If owners and operators would treat their employees with respect and pay them an industry standard wage, then perhaps the pilots would not leave. This means, days off, decent accomadations on the road, no nickle and diming meals and expenses. If you trust your pilots to fly your airplane, then you trust them to do the right thing when it comes to expenses.

So you are telling me that when you agree to the terms of the job, (the type rating, the wage, the expense rules) it is ok for the owner to live up to his end of the bargain but when it comes to you living up to your end, that everyone should just let that slide? I don't think so. Trust works both ways. When you agree to take the job you agree to the terms decided upon; both the good and bad. If you have a problem you take it up with the owner, you don't just bail because you decide you don't want to play by the rules.

I haven't, so pass the soap box

I'm glad to hear that. I'm all ears.

 

[I Hate Freight]

Re: pacific jet

my friend got hired on the premis that he will buy his own type rating he is at Simuflight as we speak I think he spent around $ 13,000 for this Type. [/B]

Your friend is a moron and a scab. He just put $13k in the pocket of the company and screwed a hard-working qualified pilot out of that job. Well, if they fire him after a month or two after he starts at least he'll have that nice shiney type rating.

I HATE FREIGHT

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I agree!!

another loser who had "no other choices" "its the economy"

 

[CaSyndrm]

"Your friend is a moron and a scab. He just put $13k in the pocket of the company and screwed a hard-working qualified pilot out of that job. Well, if they fire him after a month or two after he starts at least he'll have that nice shiney type rating".



I think a person that rights a reply like the one fits the description of a "moron" and neither of you fit the description of a "scab".

The person who paid for his training was offered the job and he isn't taking a job away from anybody. Everybody had the opportunity to interview that was invited in and just cause they offerd the job to somebody that had to buy the rating isn't the pilots fault. Why weren't the guys with the ratings already offered the job? It doesn't change anything for the company who they hire with respect to training costs. How could a pilot interviewing for a job with others that might even be more qualified be able to "screw somebody out of the job"?

I guess I don't understand that last post at all and the 10 seconds it took to read it are 10 seconds of my life I'll never get back.

 

[Casper]

I hate freight,
well I am sure that freight hates you to , what make you think that you can justify another persons place in life why is my friend a moron for wanting to get ahead if he is able to pay for the type himself so what .. I believe that you do what it takes to get to were you want to be as long as you are honest and don't hurt anyone and by all means use every tool at your disposal and in this case he is , his money, and by the way I am getting my type next month and I am paying for it to. Dude if you are not happy with your current financial situation then I suggest you find another job.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

just dont look for that job in aviation because Casper and his bud's are buying em all up!!!!

NEWS FLASH!

scumbag operators cut thier training costs by preying on the lower end of the pilot pool.

Pilots with an ounce of talent and brains DO find real jobs.

sheesh...fork out 15k for the "right" to work for an on demand rat$hit charter operator.....what a treat - thats what I call career progression...

desperate times mean desperate measures I guess....

funny many other people are getting hired many places without having to do this....speaks volumes about the "buyer"

 

[C150Commuter]

Southwest does not require a 73 type to apply, but to work there you have to buy your own type rating. This is apparently exactly what happened to this guy's friend. So according to the above posts, southwest is pft. I don't understand where you guys draw the line, its so vague. Plus, "scab"....come on. Not even close.

 

[CaSyndrm]

G200,
The "scumbag operators" you refer too have the opportunity to hire people with ratings and without. It actually costs them time and money to hire the guy that pays for the initial rating because they don't get the benefit of his services from day 1. They have to use contract guys or go short handed and possibly pay overtime to the existing guys. You continuously neglect these issues when you make your very eloquent posts and bash people.

I have not stated whether I agree or disagree with PFT only that I find it an interesting discussion. I do think however you make some points that are thoughtless and irrational but that's just my oppinion on your oppinion and we all now about oppinions. Im quite sure there are many people including yourself that dissagree with what i've posted but it is fun to read all this.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

The "scumbag operators" you refer too have the opportunity to hire people with ratings and without. It actually costs them time and money to hire the guy that pays for the initial rating because they don't get the benefit of his services from day 1.


Let me guess.....this is what they told them as they kindly referred them to thier customer representative at Simuflite...... who, by the way, takes Mastercard/Visa.....


really, I dont care who PFT's - I dont want any of those jobs.....but its a practice that makes a joke of this industry and proves you dont need a brain to fly an airplane (or at least to yank gear as a PFT SIC) - therefore why pay us more...

Its a disease that hurts us all in the long run.

Dont waste your time trying to justify it, its REALLY pathetic.

 

[CaSyndrm]

It hasn't hurt me.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

and thats all that matters.

 

[501261]

and by the way I am getting my type next month and I am paying for it to. Dude if you are not happy with your current financial situation then I suggest you find another job.

You're pathetic! If you have that kind of money to burn, then go out and get a hobby, but don't try and make a career out of flying. Some of us have had to work long and hard to in this industry to provide for our families and here you come saying "I'll do the same job as him for $15K less," and that is what you are doing when you PTF!

People that take less than standard compensation to get ahead are hurting the entire industry.

 

[G100driver]

It hasn't hurt me

That is the problem with the PFT system. All you can do look at is yourself. You do not see the larger problems in our industry. This business takes money ... a lot of it. If you do not have it, you should not be operating an aircraft, airline, ect. Every looser who PFT's has just taken one step toward lowering a great profession.

So you are telling me that when you agree to the terms of the job, (the type rating, the wage, the expense rules) it is ok for the owner to live up to his end of the bargain but when it comes to you living up to your end, that everyone should just let that slide? I don't think so. Trust works both ways. When you agree to take the job you agree to the terms decided upon; both the good and bad. If you have a problem you take it up with the owner, you don't just bail because you decide you don't want to play by the rules.

I am not justifing quiting on someone who pays the expense of training. I am just making the point that if operators would pay the standard and do the "right" thing they would not have as many problems with this. Do not pay a guy $25k a year and think that you are doing him a "favor" by letting build time in your Lear and act indignat when he quits. A classic example in Executive Flight in Wenachee, WA (EAT). They pay slightly below industry standard. However, if you stay with the company for 3 years they pay you a cash bonus of $18K. They know how to motivate people.

Casper, I was wrong about you being naive. After reading some of your last post I concluded that you are a moron. Just remember, everytime someone asks who you work for, and you answer truthfully, a portion of the pilot population will think that now you are a scumbag and treat you differently. I know I will.

Do something honorable with your life, like work in washroom handing out towels for tips.

 

[pa56pa]

PFT and PacJet

Southwest does not require a 73 type to apply, but to work there you have to buy your own type rating. This is apparently exactly what happened to this guy's friend. So according to the above posts, southwest is pft. I don't understand where you guys draw the line, its so vague. Plus, "scab"....come on. Not even close.

I second that!!

back to PacJet... I work for them.

Positive: Starting FO makes $36K, after 90 day probabtion, raise to $42K (but you better start asking for it the month before.. they are too focused on booking trips that your raise is not a priority). First year captain makes $60K for the Lears. And if you're looking for hours.. you'll definitely get it... they fly the HELL outta u. They'd like to say that they average 7-10 days off a month.. but in reality, it's 8 days a month, and bidded according to seniority like the airlines.

Negative(s) : The reason why the website is vague is because the negative rumors you hear about this company is true. Lawsuits mainly due to noise abatements are also true. Their maintenance is below average, thus aircraft safety is questionable. Lots of shortcuts, false documentation by management is a constant practice, and management needs overhauling starting with their demeanor and attitude toward their pilots. We basically get treated like $hit. Perdiems are delayed and sometimes not paid, reimbursements for expenses overdue for sometimes up to 3 months. Morale is low, and pilots are dropping like flies... need I say more?? Ask me last year if I felt this way, i'd say NOPE... but now.. Let's talk over beer! Too bad... pilots there are great.. dealing w the clowns up in charter --- that's another story.

 

[justApilot]

Re: PFT and PacJet

I second that!!
Their maintenance is below average, thus aircraft safety is questionable. Lots of shortcuts, false documentation by management is a constant practice,

that about says it all!!!

 

[pa56pa]

doesnt mean anything...

Everyone in VNY has had affiliation w Extra Jet... it's not one that I'd use against them..

All I can say is, and this goes even for those desperate for a job... DONT WORK THERE...! Paying for your training is nothing compared to the problems you will encounter in that work environment.

 

[CaSyndrm]

G100,
I'm quite sure you don't want to get in to a pissin match with me about who's done more for the industry and co-workers over the years. I have thousands of hours over the years of volunteering my time and ruining a marriage for multiple pilot groups and unions/pilot associations over the years. Just because I said it hasn't affected me doesn't mean anything other than that. I'm sure if you want to compare resume's and commitment to the industry you'll come up short. If you read everything I wrote in this thread you won't find a statement about what's right and wrong just some discussions on the topics that apply. And the comment that I find it an intersting discussion.

 

[G100driver]

Just because I said it hasn't affected me doesn't mean anything other than that.

My appologies to you as a person. It still does not mean that PFT has not affected you ....

You (our) profession is lessoned by the people and groups that perpitrate PFT.

 

[sleepy]

Sounds like every charter company I ever worked for. Don't PFT, but if you can get a job there without it, do it. Just pay your dues and hope you survive until something better comes along.

 

[pa56pa]

Don't put us all under your umbrella !

I will not use Pac Jet for our supplemental charter and I will "86" all resumes with Pac Jet listed. Many pilots view people who PFT in the same line as they do SCABS.

I'm sure many companies feel the same way as you... however, they continue to do well, add on to their fleet, and is one of the busiest charter companies on the west coast; it doesn't mean I agree with everything they do. But to 86 all resumes with PacJet listed??? Give me a BREAK!

We have over 50 pilots and most are very good people. The PFT didn't start happening until a few months ago. That is a poor management decision. So... it's not all black and white here..

Casper, I know your friend... don't worry, he's not treated as a SCAB here... he's well liked, we feel though that the company has ripped him off... It's sad that charter companies have to do this to the very people that are responsible for their bread and butter