PACE program for MESA

[flya380]

Hi Folks,

I am considering enrolling in the PACE program at Farmington. I am planning to go for the Fall semester which means i would be done by january 2006.

I would like to get some informations about the recent PACE classes. How many guys were in the class, how many guys were hired after the interview. I would appreciate some infos from insiders

I know Mesa is not currently hiring mainly because of the situation with US airways, but how are the plans for the future??

Thanks for any advices

cheers

 

[bobbysamd]

Don't pick up the PACE

I know Mesa is not currently hiring mainly because of the situation with US airways, but how are the plans for the future??

Absent the pay-for-interview component of PACE, that should tell you everything you need to know. In other words, you could complete the program, attend your (paid-for) interview and succeed, but then be placed in a hiring pool. And, it could take forever before you are called. In the meantime, your PACE training is going increasingly stale by the day when it should be applied and built-upon.

The program is clearly a pay-for-interview scheme. No guarantees that you will be hired. If you are not hired, you are out the money you paid for your training.

Better think about PACE carefully before you pick it up. Absent Mesa's ab initio program, there are no shortcuts to getting to the airlines, and those who try are not appreciated by their peers.

 

[urflyingme?!]

Man, you really have a problem with college based, strict, intellectual, airline based training programs don't you?
Whats the big deal?
They're not making a huge prift off of these guys, they are TRAINING THEM!(gasp)
The PACE graduates do MUCH better online than guys who have been bouncing in the pattern in a 172 for 2 years. (nothing wrong with that, at all. Just sayin)

 

[wheelsup]

The PACE graduates do MUCH better online than guys who have been bouncing in the pattern in a 172 for 2 years. (nothing wrong with that, at all. Just sayin)

Keep telling yourself that. And honestly, for $11,000 cool ones, I'd hope they would be better....

To the original poster - save your money. The current graduates probably won't be getting ground school dates until May or June, and by then I'm sure you could be close to the regional's competitive mins, and be $11,000 less in the hole . Not to mention how big the pool will be when you would finish the program (2006).

~wheelsup

 

[urflyingme?!]

OK, I'm not saying that mesa or PACE is the end-all to aviation training. I'm just saying that I think it is better than a lot of people give it credit for, and that it gets a bad rap from a lot of people.

I don't look down on or think that the CFI method is any better or worse at earning time, or preparing for a regional job. I'm just saying that it isn't Tab or something like that....

 

[wheelsup]

I very much like the MPD ab-initio program. I would 100% of done it had I known about the program!

I think Bobby and I are on the same page when it comes to the PACE program though - it was implemented to supplement the declining ab-initio applications in the post-911 world (re: $$).

Ab-initio is definately a good, solid program and the students that come out are solid pilots. PACE is a different world, however.

~wheelsup

 

[minitour]

If it were me, I'd spend the cash on a CFI/II/MEI course and with the rest, I'd rent a twin and do some serious multi-actual-IFR stuff.

If you're at 600 hours maybe check to see if there's a VFR 135 operator in the area hiring. Perhaps a flight school and VFR 135 ops...flying cargo or whatever...doesn't matter.

You'll be up to 1200-1500 hours in no time at the right place.

Think about the worst case scenario:

If you go this route and they give you the interview and they just decide to say no for whatever reason, where does that get you? Tons of training and no job.

Yeah, I'd go the CFI route. Even if you can't "instruct" at a school, there will always be guys that own a 150 that need a flight review or the doctor in his bonanza that needs an IPC.

Had a chat about these type of programs today with the Dir. of Ops at the school. I agree with him in that these programs don't do anything you can't do yourself. If you've got good enough experience and you're proficient enough and you've got their "minimums" met, you'll get the interview and possibly the job on your own.

That's my opinion anyway...take it for what it's worth.

-mini

 

[bobbysamd]

Strict, intellectual, airline-based training programs

Man, you really have a problem with college based, strict, intellectual, airline based training programs don't you?

Not hardly. I very much like strict, intellectual, airline-based training programs. In fact, my resume includes instructing at (1) ERAU and (2) MAPD. Throw in (3) FlightSafety Academy for a non-university strict, intellectual, airline-based training program. FSI is on my resume, too.

Further, anytime an aviation degree v. non-aviation degree discussion comes up here, without exception I come out in favor of an aviation degree. Finally, with few exceptions, I recommend (strict) 141 programs over Part 61 for new pilots because the 141 structure, meaning "school," forces one to be prepared, which promotes faster and better training.

They're not making a huge prift off of these guys, they are TRAINING THEM!(gasp)

I would gasp, too, considering that training new-hire pilots is a cost of doing business for an airline. Anytime an aviation company can get a new-hire pilot to pay for his/her training that it otherwise must provide by regulation, it is making money. Especially in PACE's case if one of its (paying-for) trainees is not hired, because it has made profit, free and clear, off that unfortunate soul.

Which brings to mind another P-F-T caveat. There is a clear conflict of interest between the trainee-customer and company trainor. It is in the trainor's interest to make as much money for his/her company as possible, which means he/she is more likely to wash out the paying trainee than a conventionally-hired trainee. It is apparent, then, that the trainor-trainee relationship is contaminated from the beginning by this conflict of interest.

The PACE graduates do MUCH better online than guys who have been bouncing in the pattern in a 172 for 2 years.

. . . . bearing in mind, of course, that many PACE grads were likely bouncing in said 172 in said pattern for the said two years before enrolling in PACE.

Somewhere, I heard that grads of the MAPD ab initio program are (1) more likely to be hired by Mesa than PACE grads and (2) do better than they because they've had Mesa line standardization drummed into them from the beginning. Having instructed there, I can vouch for that.

PACE is a P-F-T/pay-for-interview shortcut that is risky. Be smart and stay away.

 

[VFR on Top]

If you're old (say, closer to 40 than 20) and thus in a hurry to skip over the timebuilding phase, MAPD PACE is certainly a viable option...PROVIDED Mesa is hiring. Which they're not now, and until they are (read: U sinks or swims), PACE is a monumental waste of cash. I was seriously considering an ATP + PACE combo myself, but Mesa's cessation of hiring was a dealbreaker.

 

[Mugs]

Better yet, how about just pursuing a different career all together?

 

[urflyingme?!]

I would gasp, too, considering that training new-hire pilots is a cost of doing business for an airline. Anytime an aviation company can get a new-hire pilot to pay for his/her training that it otherwise must provide by regulation, it is making money.

I don't entirely disagree with your post, and I'm not gogin to go down with the ship shouting the joys of PACE-rs to the rafters. But one thing I think is that the airline isn't training thm for their company. Meaning, they don't skip groundschool or aything. A lot of the PACE guys have less than minimums for any regional. IF they prove, just like the abs must, that they can hack then they get a shot.

I'm not a standout supporter of PACE and I dont think MESA is the greatest thing in aviation since the GPS. But I also am glad that I chose that line. Just a little debatin'...

 

[bobbysamd]

Pace

But one thing I think is that the airline isn't training thm for their company . . . .

Mesa is absolutely training its PACE "prodigies" for its company. Just look at the syllabus:

A program designed to take low hour pilots to the right seat for Mesa Airlines.

​

To Qualify you must have:​

• 250 Total Flight Hours​
• Minimum of an Associates Degree​
• Acceptable Driving Record​
• First Class Medical​
• Fullfill Option A or B
  
  
  
  ​
• 
  
  
  
  Option A
  

  • 10 hours of BE-58 Baron training
  • 20 hours in a Baron flight-training device (Frasca 242)
  • 40 hours in the JetSim (20 hours right/20 hours left)
  • Guaranteed interview with Mesa Air Group for a 1st Officer position upon successful completion of this program.
  • Multi-Engine Ground School and Jet Systems Course

Option B

• Multi-Engine Rating in FAR Part 141 course which includes
  • 20 hours of BE-58 Baron training plus FAA Practical Test
  • 14.5 hours in a Baron flight-training device (Frasca 242)
  • Multi-Engine Ground School and Jet Systems Course
• 40 hours in the JetSim (20 hours right/20 hours left)
• Guaranteed interview with Mesa Air Group for a 1st Officer position upon successful completion of this program.
  ​

  
  
  ​

(emphasis added)

The statement: "A program designed to take low hour pilots to the right seat for XXXX Airline . . . ." is a sure indicator of P-F-T every time, in any program description. Further, by its own statements it is clear that PACE training is intended for Mesa Airlines, only. The JetSim training is meaningless outside the Mesa realm. Notwithstanding the whiz-bang JetSim training, the Baron training is absolutely based on Mesa line procedures.

Did I read the program costs $11Gs? Let's say you choose Option B. $11,000.00 is pretty expensive for a multiengine rating - which is the only tangible credential one would leave with if not hired by Mesa. Option A?? Completely risky, with no assurances of actually being hired.

As minitour suggested, take the $11,000 and invest it in training that leads to tangible, universally accepted credentials. PACE fits the second test of P-F-T - the training not leading to tangible credentials which can be marketed anywhere.
​

 

[FN FAL]

Better yet, how about just pursuing a different career all together?

I'm with you Mugs...all together! On three! One...Two...

Martin Riggs: On 3, what do ya say?
Roger Murtaugh: Okay.
Martin Riggs: One... two...
Roger Murtaugh: Wait, wait, wait!
Martin Riggs: What?
Roger Murtaugh: Do we do it on three? Or one, two, three, then do it?
Martin Riggs: It's your ass, Cochise!
Roger Murtaugh: My ass, yeah. On three.
Martin Riggs: We go on three?
Roger Murtaugh: Yeah.

 

[tataki]

how long does the PACE program last if you are a commercial single pilote seeking option B. Anyone in this situation?

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Only $11,000 for a fast track job with the industry's worst regional airline! Enroll today! Hurry, limited time offer. Offer not available in certain states. Void where prohibited.