P180 Vs. Phenom 300 - Avantair Ad

[Pervis]

I too saw an EMB 300 at TEB recently. It has a remarkable ramp presence, and looks far bigger than any light cabin aircraft in its class. I was concerned when I saw an EMB 100, as it looks like any really small jet, but now I'm excited about future prospects.

I am also very impressed with the P180-performance and appearance. I don't get this penis envy crap. Both serve a nitch very well, and can coexist very nicely, providing more of us jobs than the alternative.

The civilian world is indeed strange. In any of the services, the majority drool over the dreams of getting that very rare fighter slot, while the heavies were left for "second best". In the USAF, there were rarely more than 2 or 3 fighter slots for a class of 20+. The only reason one wanted that "heavy iron" was pay and prestige, but only when age and rank forced you out of that fighter into the civilian world.

Personally, I'd rather stay in the high performance sports car than drive a big bus. The 180, 300, and every other frac bird fits the sports car analogy very nicely, and the pay is approaching any heavy pay.

 

[rajflyboy]

300 does not need TRs. Max ldg wt of 16800, No wind at SL is only 2638 with a Ref speed of 117 kts.

Thats a pretty high ref speed and add that on to a landing in heavy rain with a 10 knot tailwind in a place like KPDK on rwy 20L. Good Luck!

I'd prefer to have TR'S

You always have those handful of landings each year when you are very happy that you had them.

 

[jonjuan]

While killing a few hours today at TEB, I got my first look at a Phenom 300. Wow. Really. Wow. What an incredible aircraft. I can't s-talk about the Phenom 300 in good conscience, now that I've actually taken a look at it.

We've got some new props coming; they're promising 20-25 KIAS faster cruise speed, lower noise footprint, etc. They also have a new meaning that you won't see advertised: they'll keep us in the game against the 300.
edit to add: well, it WAS missing props. Strike one!

Aft, what sort of typical fuel flows do you see on say a 3 hour leg? Thx

 

[BoilerUP]

Ground Idle on some FADEC-equipped make TRs unnecessary.

Don't get me wrong, I miss the warm fuzzies I got from the highly effective TRs on our old Citation II, especially landing short or contaminated runways...but in the CJ2+/CJ3 (and I presume CJ4 and Phenoms) the brakes are so effective you really don't NEED reversers and after 2+ years, I really don't miss them.

 

[fischman]

TR's, or lack thereof, don't really bother me. The reverser on the XL is so slow to deploy that it is almost useless. If you need them that bad to stop on a runway of more than 4000 ft, you're already in deep doo doo.

 

[mainiac]

Aft, what sort of typical fuel flows do you see on say a 3 hour leg? Thx

Last Friday, DAL-PHX, with average west-bound headwinds.
Off 2214Z
On 0109Z
Burn 2070 lbs

(From my BB flightlog entry for that leg)

I usually plan 800, 600, 600 for hourly burn rough estimates.

 

[mainiac]

Props are for boats. Hehehe

in my case:

Props pay for boats!
and Harleys, and Ski-doos, and skis...

(I like to burn fuel for fun)

 

[sshrae]

in my case:

Props pay for boats!
and Harleys, and Ski-doos, and skis...

(I like to burn fuel for fun)

you must live in a relatively cheap town, good on you.

 

[mainiac]

you must live in a relatively cheap town, good on you.

Inexpensive, not cheap!

 

[sshrae]

Inexpensive, not cheap!

sorry, thats what i meant

 

[AftCG182]

Last Friday, DAL-PHX, with average west-bound headwinds.
Off 2214Z
On 0109Z
Burn 2070 lbs

(From my BB flightlog entry for that leg)

I usually plan 800, 600, 600 for hourly burn rough estimates.

Thanks for getting that for me. Been busy the last couple of days. How's the air conditioned, climate-controlled sim treatin' ya? Ready to come back to the line yet?

BTW, don't worry. I've been sweating enough for the both of us. (Inside sweaty joke for those of you who don't know us personally)

 

[mainiac]

Thanks for getting that for me. Been busy the last couple of days. How's the air conditioned, climate-controlled sim treatin' ya? Ready to come back to the line yet?

BTW, don't worry. I've been sweating enough for the both of us. (Inside sweaty joke for those of you who don't know us personally)

Air-conditioned SIM is nice! But I had a pretty decent tour on the line this week. Really sharp new-hire, almost as good as you were!

Going home tomorrow at 0600.

Sweating in Houston right now!

Boy, I hate summer..:angryfire

See ya

 

[Gators]

While killing a few hours today at TEB, I got my first look at a Phenom 300. Wow. Really. Wow. What an incredible aircraft. I can't s-talk about the Phenom 300 in good conscience, now that I've actually taken a look at it.

We've got some new props coming; they're promising 20-25 KIAS faster cruise speed, lower noise footprint, etc. They also have a new meaning that you won't see advertised: they'll keep us in the game against the 300.

The airplane was that nice. Anyway, I'm always up for a good challenge. Let's see how it plays out...

edit to add: well, it WAS missing props. Strike one!

New props? Source?

 

[wacoflyr]

New props? Source?

Yeah, we are supposed to get new props. Our CEO flew in a plane that had them in Italy; He told us some numbers that were breathtaking. He stated that we would see them late in the fall.

New props, new planes, whatever... This is aviation. When I find myself cleaning those new props, when I can pat that new plane on the nose, then I will believe in it. Not before. The numbers? I'll believe in those when I find myself at 410, going like gangbusters. Not before.

Just my .02

 

[wacoflyr]

Boy, I hate summer..:angryfire

See ya

Oh, c'mon. Don't be such a buzzkill. We just tossed the boat in, and the masts go up today. So what's not to like? Make your way down to the ocean this year, and see what you have been missing.

 

[rajflyboy]

Great idea No TR'S

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Plane-skids-off-Sedona-airport-runway-down-cliff-122625404.html

 

[BoilerUP]

...because we all know TR-equipped aircraft NEVER go off the end of the runway...

The Phenom 100 has had brake issues...but I'd be real curious to see what speed they crossed the threshold at, and how far down the runway they touched down.

 

[rajflyboy]

...because we all know TR-equipped aircraft NEVER go off the end of the runway...

The Phenom 100 has had brake issues...but I'd be real curious to see what speed they crossed the threshold at, and how far down the runway they touched down.

and the winds and gust factor corrections (for some reason people forget about this)

but TR's are a good thing to have in your corner for landing in places like this.

 

[rettofly]

Yeah, we are supposed to get new props. Our CEO flew in a plane that had them in Italy; He told us some numbers that were breathtaking. He stated that we would see them late in the fall.

New props, new planes, whatever... This is aviation. When I find myself cleaning those new props, when I can pat that new plane on the nose, then I will believe in it. Not before. The numbers? I'll believe in those when I find myself at 410, going like gangbusters. Not before.

Just my .02

Be ready to pull the power when the Mach buzzer goes off! :smash:

 

[hammer2]

Last Friday, DAL-PHX, with average west-bound headwinds.
Off 2214Z
On 0109Z
Burn 2070 lbs

(From my BB flightlog entry for that leg)

I usually plan 800, 600, 600 for hourly burn rough estimates.

Wow, that's nice!