Our "Team" leader out to lunch

[SilverSurfer]

Giving the ideot a backboard

I totally agree! However, FUD campaigns are sometimes effective otherwise union-busters wouldn't use them so aggressively and desperately, especially when they're trying to destroy the group's unity and will to prevail. That said, if the posting group votes to give the fudspinner the boot (place him on their ignore list) I will follow their lead. Then I'll switch to red boots and put a red anti-fud warning on the bottom of my posts...

Word-twisting fudspinners have an agenda -- not credibility. Give 'em the black boot!

NJW,

You know I admire your fire and passion for our fight. I wish every pilots we have was willing to fight the fight as you are.

If all of us were to ignore this moron and not allow him to side track every thread with his horsesh!t, our communications here would be more effective. When any of us respond to his FUD, providing him a backboard to bounce his message, you are providing a means for him to perpetuate his mission and help make him successful. If we do not respond to him when he takes these FUD shots they go off into INTERNET space as if him and his words do not exist.

I have him on my ignore list all by himself, so the only time I see anything this moron has to say is when someone quotes him. What I see from these quotes is the same old sh!t, same old message. Why help him to accomplish his mission by providing him a consistent forum to to spread his FUD.

Ignore the fool.

 

[Frac Cap]

I will ignore him.

 

[skanza]

You attack me like a high school bully using names like fudspinner, village idiot and wordtwister because you have no other way to deal with the honesty of the opinions I have that are thought of but never spoken by the average non-pilot employee burned by a union.

Your posts are immature, selfish and self serving even though your only involvement is being the wife of a pilot. Success by 1108 at FLOPS will line the wallets of 1108 leadership with the hard earned dues of it’s members and place the company at risk.

NJW, can you directly respond to these comments made by this person? If not, you are staying stuck in a circle of just attacking the poster personally and not addressing things that he/she brings up that should not be ignored. If ignored, then your credability is at risk because of your inability to be objective. Once you cross into attacking someone on a personal level, your argument departs from the sujbect at hand.

 

[skanza]

subjective / objective ?

If all of us were to ignore this moron and not allow him to side track every thread with his horsesh!t, our communications here would be more effective. When any of us respond to his FUD, providing him a backboard to bounce his message, you are providing a means for him to perpetuate his mission and help make him successful. If we do not respond to him when he takes these FUD shots they go off into INTERNET space as if him and his words do not exist.

I have him on my ignore list all by himself, so the only time I see anything this moron has to say is when someone quotes him. What I see from these quotes is the same old sh!t, same old message. Why help him to accomplish his mission by providing him a consistent forum to to spread his FUD.

Ignore the fool.

So, by ignoring him one is showing that they are unable to see that this argument has two sides. That is pretty weak in my opinion. And if you trash me for my opinion, you are subjecting you own to the same disrepect. This is, after all a two sided issue and not addressing both sides is dangerous. B 19 whomever they are has not lashed out at others as they have lashed out at him, thus sustaining his/her credability.

 

[CaveoFalco]

.........

I am quite shocked that you have not been moderated off this board. Comparing NJW to Hitler is not only uncalled for but downright evil and very clearly anti-semitic. Had you ever visited Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, or any other of the places Hitler inflicted his hatred on the Jews of Europe you would never, ever use such an appalling reference over a difference of opinion. You are a disgusting human being for such a reference. The rest of your post is so filled with hate speech framed with Anti-Semitic overtone it is not worth commenting on.

 

[SilverSurfer]

So, by ignoring him one is showing that they are unable to see that this argument has two sides. That is pretty weak in my opinion. And if you trash me for my opinion, you are subjecting you own to the same disrepect. This is, after all a two sided issue and not addressing both sides is dangerous. B 19 whomever they are has not lashed out at others as they have lashed out at him, thus sustaining his/her credability.

skanza,

I have no problem debating issues with someone, and I have with B19 in the past. I put him on my ignore list only after spending far to much time addressing the same issues again and again in what proved to be his fruitless never ending regurgitation of the same old crap. His arguments are based on his supposed personal experience and not on imperial evidence. When arguing his anti union point of view he has been asked by me and others to back up his arguments with information about situations that gave him such a bad case for unions and what this new non union utopia is that he now works for. He backs up none of his statements by validation of his personal experience. The result is a never ending exchange that has the end effect of disrupting and sidetracking other communication that are taking place and this is exactly what this guys mission is. Why should I help him to accomplish his union busting mission?

 

[CaveoFalco]

So, by ignoring him one is showing that they are unable to see that this argument has two sides. That is pretty weak in my opinion. And if you trash me for my opinion, you are subjecting you own to the same disrepect. This is, after all a two sided issue and not addressing both sides is dangerous. B 19 whomever they are has not lashed out at others as they have lashed out at him, thus sustaining his/her credability.

B19 does not have educated opinions, only hatred for all that is Union. His academic research amounts to quoting Wikipeidia so he has no credibility with anyone. He won't listen to any arguments counter to his cause and won't even acknowledge that the facts that NJW continually points out on this board. His references to Hitler show his true inner being and what he really stands for. Shameful.

 

[skanza]

Silver/Caveo,
Points taken by you both and thanks for your candor. I guess that it bothers me that B19 is attacked so much and it seems like the only reason is that because his view of the union is different from the supporters. Some of his views may be based on personal experience, but aren't everybody's? Given that, what would be considered a credible source for examples of the negative affects that unions have on companies? And no, there can't be none, because then we'd be slipping into being non-objective.
Thanks.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Reasonable and objective

Silver/Caveo,
Points taken by you both and thanks for your candor. I guess that it bothers me that B19 is attacked so much and it seems like the only reason is that because his view of the union is different from the supporters. Some of his views may be based on personal experience, but aren't everybody's? Given that, what would be considered a credible source for examples of the negative affects that unions have on companies? And no, there can't be none, because then we'd be slipping into being non-objective.
Thanks.

I believe that any reasonable and objective reader of the arguments with B19 that have been played out in thread after thread would come to the conclusion that B19 is not here to debate. He is here to disrupt and side tract every thread into a pro union/anti union debate using the same unsubstantiated arguments over and over again.

You are right that our personal experience forms the basis of the opinion we express here. And most if not all of us have shared what specific experiences we have had that formed these opinions. B19 has refused repeatedly to validate the basis of his arguments by sharing where and with what company the union opinions were formed. For me this makes what ever he has to say regarding his anti union views as not worthy of any further consideration.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19 does not have educated opinions, only hatred for all that is Union. His academic research amounts to quoting Wikipeidia so he has no credibility with anyone. He won't listen to any arguments counter to his cause and won't even acknowledge that the facts that NJW continually points out on this board. His references to Hitler show his true inner being and what he really stands for. Shameful.

Not true. I have given credible and specific information time and time again. I can counter every union propaganda statement with a historical fact of a union gone bad. We don't really need to go far beyond Eastern, but the layoffs following the downturn in the industry prior to 9/11 should be enough with the stagnant reaction by unions to the financial threat of bankruptcy.

My newspaper articles are generally from the New York Times and Wall Street Journal, although I may have used an occasional quote from wikipedia.

I do listen to the arguments, and they for the most part are given by people that have never been laid off or experienced a work action. I have had my career redirected twice thanx to unions and have experienced the best of my career without the pressure of a union enviroment.

The arguments are also make by pilots that have never managed in a union world to see what it's like.

I have always held to the same exact statements.

Be careful what you ask for, and if you have the courage, step into the action and manage rather than criticize something you haven't experienced. It's a lot harder than it seems.