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Others value ALPA more than many of its members

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And why not? AOPA is VERY imperfect, but there is no other organization working to keep it possible to go fly a Cub or 152 around without European-style regulation and costs.

I couldn't possibly care less about flying a 152 when management has been able to cut pilot pay so much that most pilots can't afford the GA hobby in the first place. Once we get pilot pay back to 1977 level wages, corrected for inflation, maybe then I'll give two sh--- about GA.
 
Don't you think it's wrong? If so, how do you correct it while protecting others at the same time?

Of course it's wrong, but what you're advocating is even more wrong. SaturnPilot has adequately discussed what we should be doing to correct the situation: bring up the pay of junior pilots.
 
I love it how everyone seems to think that corporate pilots get "upgraded" based on ass-kissing.

How's this for a concept? At a Part 91 operator I know flying a CL-300, both pilots are compensated rather well... both are typed captains and they alternate left seat. One guy also has additional managerial duties such as maintenance scheduling, training schedule, etc. The captain/manager makes $140k and the co-captain makes $120k. What a f**king nightmare! Oh yeah, I forget... in the airlines, you can't have both people draw captain pay or make similar amount of money!

Here's another novel concept, you can keep seniority for every other aspect except experience... In other words, you can keep your seniority for bidding better schedules, vacation, etc.

But you reward experienced pilots by paying them what they're worth... and if it was 100k at one job, it ain't 30k at another.

There's something to be learned from the expat community and how foreign airlines run things.

How is that wrong PCL?

Well... one small problem, you'd never get ALPA to sign off on that.
 
How is that wrong PCL?

Well... one small problem, you'd never get ALPA to sign off on that.

ALPA would never sign off on it because airline management has proven time and again that they can't be trusted with such a system. They would abuse such a system in order to promote ass-kissers that cut corners instead of competent pilots. Would you trust Johnny O to upgrade people based on merit? I didn't think so.
 
ALPA would never sign off on it because airline management has proven time and again that they can't be trusted with such a system. They would abuse such a system in order to promote ass-kissers that cut corners instead of competent pilots. Would you trust Johnny O to upgrade people based on merit? I didn't think so.

What makes you say that and when has airline management proven that they can't be trusted with such a system? I'm asking because I don't know... as far as I can remember, it was always ALL ABOUT SENIORITY.

All you need to do is look at it outside of the airline world to see that your theory that "such system at airline managements cannot be trusted" is wrong.

How does every other industry survive without an in-company seniority system for pay, and what other industry causes people to do the same job for pennies on a dollar simply because it's with a different company?

Come on, pal... open your eyes. You'll see a whole other world out there
 
I couldn't possibly care less about flying a 152 when management has been able to cut pilot pay so much that most pilots can't afford the GA hobby in the first place. Once we get pilot pay back to 1977 level wages, corrected for inflation, maybe then I'll give two sh--- about GA.

And maybe once you stop being such a loudmouth hypocrite, others on this board will start to give two sh--- about your opinions. :)
 
And maybe once you stop being such a loudmouth hypocrite, others on this board will start to give two sh--- about your opinions. :)
PFT128 a hypocrite??? Never! (Sarcasm)

Amen, Imacdog!:beer:
 
Guys... why make things personal?

PCL128 can at least have a civil debate. It really ruins your credibility when you attack him personally.
 
What makes you say that and when has airline management proven that they can't be trusted with such a system? I'm asking because I don't know... as far as I can remember, it was always ALL ABOUT SENIORITY.

All you need to do is look at it outside of the airline world to see that your theory that "such system at airline managements cannot be trusted" is wrong.

How does every other industry survive without an in-company seniority system for pay, and what other industry causes people to do the same job for pennies on a dollar simply because it's with a different company?

Come on, pal... open your eyes. You'll see a whole other world out there

Take a look at most airline training departments. Are they filled with the best and brightest instructors? Maybe some are, but most are filled with company-men and ass-kissers. It's not about merit, it's about who you know and who's ass you've been licking. This is simply reality.

We don't want "merit" entering the equation for schedules, upgrades, payrates, etc... "Merit" is highly subjective. As soon as airline manager have the ability to use their own judgement to determine who is "deserving," you can count on pilot pushing reaching all-time highs. Sorry, I'm not interested.
 
...As soon as airline manager have the ability to use their own judgement to determine who is "deserving," you can count on pilot pushing reaching all-time highs...

That's the big one in a nutshell right there, yessir...man has a point.
 

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