Organization Of Black Airline Pilots

[Dennis Miller]

If not now, then when exactly do we internalize the teachings of great civil rights leaders and start treating (judging) each other by the content of one's character rather than the color of one's skin?

I have to agree, I understand where political correctness comes from -- a scant forty years ago, we were doing "Amos 'n' Andy" jokes on the airwaves, for Christ's sake. We were barbaric louts. But now, suddenly, we find ourselves in a classic overcorrection, where we're all supposed to zip through life like some huge societal squadron of Blue Angels, flying six inches off each other's taste wing, never ever deviating even one angstrom. Well, folks, there are a lot of different aircraft careening through the social stratosphere, and we better start working out some respectfully independent glide paths right now, or it's gonna start getting really messy.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So I guess I shouldn't start up OCRAP?

I'll call it the Organization of Conservative Republican Airline Pilots. Might help some of my other bro's get jobs...

OCRAP is the subconscious nagging that CRAPs (cons repub airline pilots) get when they vote for pro company anti pilot candidates.....

Not sure if you'll get jobs via OCRAP.... more like furloughs, paycuts, lost pensions and unreturned phone calls..... all while the Elitist are laughing all the way to bank! They take you money and your votes!


Big Beer Belly...

You might have a point except that OBAP and WIA allow membership to all. They don't exclude.

As a white guy (I take it), would you be willing to go to the inner DTW city in uniform and talk to kids (some might have guns in class)? I would be uneasy... So what's wrong with an organization setting up a conduit to get it done?

If it motivates kids to become professionals instead of pushers....?

On the other hand... WIA..... are women having problem getting hired? it seems in todays market place gender barriers are minimal if not nil. Any aviatrix'es have a comment?

 

[IAHERJ]

I think the intentions of the thread starter show all that is good about this organization. You can make the argument that wrighting a past wrong through affirmative action is counterproductive all day. Sometimes I even agree with that. What you can't do is ignore the good that organizations such as OBAP do in communities that desperately need to have "role models" appear now and then. This school visit is a grass roots level action that I think the OBAP group should be persuing on a continual basis.
The more student pilots we get from different segments of society, the more pilots from these groups we will eventually see. When hiring departments have a steady stream of applicants from all segments of our society to chose from one day; the organizations representing the minority groups should cease to exist. Blacks represent 16% of the population. Once 16% of applicants to major airlines happen to be black, we will have achieved a great feat. Until that day comes, I support the actions(grass root) of the OBAP group.

IAHERJ

 

[TWA Dude]

Organizations such as OBAP feel it is acceptable to have a race-based agenda because their constituents have historically been persecuted.

When their organization is no longer needed it will go away. And you're not in any position to judge whether it's needed.

 

[psycho]

What a great dialogue and long overdue on this site. I was pretty Stung when I woke up this morning and saw that postings had to be deleted because of some ignorant comments. A few more followed but if you guys who wrote them want to show you azzes then go ahead. I can spot people like you a mile right away in the crew lounge. So can anyone else.

Hey D-BO, glad you took the time to write again. And Wiskey driver, Thanks for stepping up to the plate. I can guarantee that when you guys step into that classroom you will be Rockstars to those Kids.

This thread and my asking for a Black Pilot to present to these Kids has nothing to do with political correctness. It happens to be Black History month and having a stand up guy like Wiskey Driver or D-Bo who is making history present will get those gears turning in those Kid's heads!!

I live in a working class suburb of Detriot ( RJ pilot, need I say more ) that is 90% white and so am I. This area is so polarized it aint funny. We hear nothing on the news about the Black population except the misdeeds of the few. Most people in the D mistrust us for the most part. Maybe these Kids need to learn about the sucess stories too.

I was raised in the Clem. Not a good part of it either. ( Anyone local knows what I am talking about ) Never did anyone come to my school and tell us that we had a chance. How enlightening would that have been. You guys who are unselfish enough to pass on your knowledge to Kids deserve props!!

Thanks again!!

 

[Big Beer Belly]

When their organization is no longer needed it will go away. And you're not in any position to judge whether it's needed.

MLK taught to judge someone by the content of his character, not the color of his skin. I missed the part where he said let's wait 50, 75, 100 years to begin treating each other with "color-blindness". OBAP is not correcting racism, it is perpetuating it by its divisive nature. Do you see my point?

Why doesn't OBAP seek out all underprivileged youth to mentor into aviation? Why do they selectively promote black youth? An organization who's function it is to promote aviation to a specific race is inherently racist by definition, regardless of who may or may not join the organization.

I think MLK would not have approved of any organization that promoted a particular race over another. It goes against the basic tenets of his teachings.


BBB

 

[~~~^~~~]

BBB:

You are correct, OBAP is fundamentally a racist organization, but they are not harming anyone and you and I do not have to pay for it, or participate, if we do not want to.

Guess I'm dumb, but I'm not even sure what "black" is... is anymore. It seems like a very outdated term.

If OBAP were merely an association of airline pilots they would not be able to raise nearly as much dues money and Corporate America would not be tripping over itself to provide support.

 

[BOYCAPTAIN]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[psycho]

Triple B,

I think you might be a fun guy to drink beers with. I cannot understand why you always come across as a big league tool when you post.

We already have an organization of white airline pilots. They just screwed up the acronym. It is called ALPA.

I would also be up for a new organization called something like Blue Collar Pilots Association. Seems like every buys their jobs these days.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

MLK taught to judge someone by the content of his character, not the color of his skin. I missed the part where he said let's wait 50, 75, 100 years to begin treating each other with "color-blindness". OBAP is not correcting racism, it is perpetuating it by its divisive nature. Do you see my point?

How is it perpetuating divisiveness? By helping kids be professionals and not pushers? I don't see them promoting thier agenda at anyone's expense...

Why should ALPA only help pilots? Why not FA's or Mech's?

Why should AOPA only help owners and pilots?

OPAP has a political agenda: helping blacks advance in aviation. Nothing wrong with that. Is there?

Why doesn't OBAP seek out all underprivileged youth to mentor into aviation? Why do they selectively promote black youth? An organization who's function it is to promote aviation to a specific race is inherently racist by definition, regardless of who may or may not join the organization.

My neighbor recently donated her kidney to her sister. Why limit it to family? If we can all help each other then should we not donate our kidney to anyone and all people? But yet we don't and many die each year because we refuse to give...

I think MLK would not have approved of any organization that promoted a particular race over another. It goes against the basic tenets of his teachings.

Again, I don't think OBAP promotes over another. Do you really feel inner city kids have an advantage over suburban kids?

Consider where one is placed in life. What chances does an African child with both his parents dying of AIDS, who lives on a dirt floor with malaria and must fight for food each day to feed his younger sister and two baby brothers have of becoming an Air Line Pilot?

Now, what chances does a malnurished kid living in DTW inner city with a 18 year old single mother on welfare and meth who must care for his younger siblings have of becoming an Air Line Pilot? Does that child deserve his bleak future?

If a guy can show up in uniform and say... 'I was you and you can be me'.... why not? Is he stopping a nice cookie cutter middle class "Holister" this week, gangsta-wanna-be next week kid out of a pilot job?


A bit presumptious to speak on behalf of MLK. Do you have a refernce that he would not approve?

 

[Big Beer Belly]

BBB:

You are correct, OBAP is fundamentally a racist organization, but they are not harming anyone and you and I do not have to pay for it, or participate, if we do not want to.

I understand your point, however, whenever we as a society tolerate racism (in whatever form) then we are lesser for it, IMO.

BBB

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I understand your point, however, whenever we as a society tolerate racism (in whatever form) then we are lesser for it, IMO.

BBB

Please explain how OBAP, specifically, this posters desire to visit inner city kids in DTW aligns with the following definition of racism from answers.com?

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

 

[ferlo]

What's the problem here? If an OBAP pilot is willing to do the job, respond. If not, fine. Drop the B.S.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Unbelievable

 

[Allen1]

nevermind

 

[Allen1]

Nevermind

 

[D-Bo]

I think peoples' problem with OBAP isn't it's work, but its principle. Kind of like the United Negro College Fund. Why is one race given special programs and scholarships when others aren't?

Like I said before, most folks here make up what they think OBAP is about. OBAP is somewhat about networking and helping prepare folks to get jobs in the aviation industry, not just pilot jobs, but you don't have to be black to be a member.
It's very simple to see what OBAP is about. Look up the mission statement. The main mission of OBAP is to basically introduce and get kids interested in aviation who most likely had no exposure whatsoever to the industry before. Now, if you have a problem with that, then you have a bigger issue than just OBAP.
Some folks here need to just quite believing the BS they read on this board all of the time. Seriously.

 

[~~~^~~~]

OBAP's Mission Statement

"The goals of OBAP are to motivate our youth to ... increase minority participation in aviation through exposure, training, mentoring, and scholarships; to encourage networking among black pilots; to increase the number of black pilots hired by airlines; and to assist the black airline pilot with special needs and concerns."

Yeah, it speaks for itself. It clearly is discriminatory. Again, I think it does no harm, but it's discriminatory nature detracts from what would be a good intent.

 

[TWA Dude]

Fins: you do not understand what discrimination is. Promoting one agenda or one group is not discrimination. Discrimination is maliciously harming a specific group. OBAP isn't harming anybody. But your erroneous definition of discrimination certainly may.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Geez you guys. Next time you go to your respective crew lounge, look around and see what the makeup is of your pilot group. Mostly white males I am sure.

Psycho is looking for what is no more than a "role-model" for some inner city kids. It's easier for them to imagine that a job as an airline pilot is attainable, if they see somebody that looks just like themselves has already done it.

I believe there are probably more women pilots now than black pilots, atleast from my observations around airports.

Good luck Psycho.

 

[AC560]

OPAP has a political agenda: helping blacks advance in aviation. Nothing wrong with that. Is there?

No there isn't. However if I founded an organization that had a political agenda of helping whites to advance in aviation I would be labeled a racist and my posts would be deleted.

 

[Cardinal]

psycho's goals are worthy, and I commend him for a positive community initiative. However...

OBAP is corrupt. If you've had dealings with the organization it becomes readily apparent (and I'm part black.)

 

[AC560]

(and I'm part black.)

I hope in all the right parts.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No there isn't. However if I founded an organization that had a political agenda of helping whites to advance in aviation I would be labeled a racist and my posts would be deleted.

So what is your point? do you feel the need to create a white pilot organization when an overwhelming majority of whites do not have obstacles getting hired as pilots?

The reason why there is BET and no W.E.T. is becasue there already is W.E.T. Its called NBC, ABC, CBS etc..

OBAP is corrupt. If you've had dealings with the organization it becomes readily apparent (and I'm part black.)

eloboration of the proclamation of your accusation

 

[jke406]

deleted. not worth it.

 

[AC560]

So what is your point? do you feel the need to create a white pilot organization when an overwhelming majority of whites do not have obstacles getting hired as pilots?

What does getting hired have to do with it? The point is that if we were to make a white only organization it would derided as racist. A black only organization well that's ok.

As Big Beer Belly has said until we begin to make organizations based upon who we are, not what we are racism will be propagated.

 

[WestHouston]

Like the other poster said, I think the threads author has his heart in the right place, but any ogranization that makes skin color the deciding factor in detirmining who gets help is racist.

When I joined the military, I had a black buddy apply at the same time. I never recieved a call from the recruiter, and had to constantly drive to the office to get anything done. My friend on the other hand was pounced on like a pit bull on a t bone. When I asked the recruiters why that was the case, he said "man I don't know, we're busy".

Then I told him he was black and he said, "oh well that changes everything!" They get bigger bonuses for the number of minorities and women they enlist.

Now, that is wrong on so many levels. Should I start the NAAWG (Nation Association for the Advnacement of White Guys)? Because your analogy of 'the status quo' already functioning in that capacity is obviously not the case here.

Now I'm not advocating the banning of race-centric organizations as I think the Constitution supports it. However, I also think that organizations fitting that profile should not be exalted by the public as they are by creed, racist.

I hope this post doesn't earn me any "racist a$$hole" comments, I just think racism shouldn't operate through a check-valve.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What does getting hired have to do with it? The point is that if we were to make a white only organization it would derided as racist. A black only organization well that's ok.

So are you saying that OBAP is a racist organization?

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

1. How is OBAP saying they are superior to other races?
2. How does OBAP dicriminate or have prejudice?

Now, if a group or organization had an advantage, say cookie cutter white boys from upper middle class suburbia started White Future Pilot Organization... that just might be considered racist because these economically sound Whites always had the advantage in the first place...

As Big Beer Belly has said until we begin to make organizations based upon who we are, not what we are racism will be propagated.

Who are 'we'? Are you helping people of all color to become pilots? Maybe if you hit the inner city OBAP wouldn't have to....

Your thoughts...

 

[Cardinal]

eloboration of the proclamation of your accusation

I wish I could, but that would require naming individuals and their unseemly role in otherwise upstanding corporations, upon whom my future livelihood could very well rest. Further, it would require the divulging of a memorable yet private conversation. I'm afraid I ain't gonna kick over a real world hornet's nest for the sake of flightinfo.

 

[AC560]

2. How does OBAP dicriminate or have prejudice?

How does the KKK discriminate or have prejudice?

Now, if a group or organization had an advantage, say cookie cutter white boys from upper middle class suburbia started White Future Pilot Organization... that just might be considered racist because these economically sound Whites always had the advantage in the first place...

Advantage has nothing to do with racism. You can be advantaged and racist or you can be disadvantaged and racist.