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OPT362 overrun KSGR

BlueNose

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https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20160726-0

Date:Tuesday 26 July 2016
Time: 1509
Type: Embraer EMB-505 Phenom 300
Operator: Flexjet
Registration: N362FX C/n / msn: 50500239
First flight: 2014
Engines: 2 Pratt & Whitney Canada PW535E

Crew: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 2
Passengers: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 1
Total: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 3

Airplane damage: Substantial
Location: Houston-Sugar Land Regional Airport, TX (SGR)
Phase: Landing (LDG)
Nature: Unknown
Departure airport: Scottsdale Airport, AZ (SCF/KSDL),
Destination airport: Houston-Sugar Land Regional Airport, TX (SGR/KSGR),
Flight number: OPT362

Narrative:
The aircraft experienced a runway overrun upon landing to runway 35 at Sugar Land Regional Airport (KSGR), Houston, Texas. The airplane sustained unreported but apparent substantial damage and the three occupants onboard were not injured. Weather may have been a factor to the incident as there was a thunderstorm in the area. An automated weather report three minutes before the accident shows wind from 130 degrees at 8 knots. Eight minutes after the accident wind was reported from 180 degrees at 13 knots, gusting to 19 knots.
The asphalt runway at Sugar Land Airport has a length of 8000 feet. Runway 35 has a 1984 ft displaced threshold, leaving 6016 ft (1833 m). A creek is located 30 m past the paved end of runway 35.
 

Dooker

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No spoilers, no TR's. So glad I don't' fly those little sh!tboxes.
 

shanes123

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No pay raise and Flex Furloughs

Well 25 on the street today as KR donated 5 Million dollars to a Marching Band and his goons said in negotiions no pay raise. Guess the marching band got all of it. Any Flex guys wake up yet????? Naaaaah
 

Imissmypilot

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Good thing the first priority was to get a tarp over the N-number.

I have mixed feelings on this topic, as I'm sure most of us do. I would appreciate hearing how this came about i.e. who made the call and who carried out the action and the thought process behind it all before I decide.

One thing that is interesting, the media reported that as a Flexjet owned and operated aircraft. Where are they getting their information since only the FX tail ties it to FJ? Everything official is all Options.

Fact is Ricci and company branded those planes as Flexjet because they are trying to escape the reputation they gave to themselves with how they have managed Options. Now the Onesky PR Dept will have to work overtime to counter the factual impression that a Ricci run company is a sh!tstorm of potential problems owners want to avoid. It doesn't matter if it is Options, Flexjet or Onesky, if Ricci and crew are behind it, then it is going to have the dark clouds over it.

My full support goes out to these pilots who just by the sheer fact there were no injuries speaks to a great job in tough circumstances. I do however wonder, with so many of the recent furloughs effecting the Phenom crews, if that had bearing. Perhaps these guys are overworked and overtired as a general fleet rule. I certainly hope the NTSB looks into how company practices and cultural atmosphere could have been a factor here.
 

shanes123

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Incorrect IMISSPILOT a FAA N Number search and it comes up Flexjet LLC. Hate to say we told you so..BUT WE TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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No problem. The Jetsuite 100 overrun in 2014 had similar circumstances. The FAA did a study on the runway surface. I couldn't find the results of that study. Everything else is speculation so I will wait for the facts.
 

Hobbes

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Has anybody heard yet whether the crew reported mechanical issues, etc after touchdown?
 

BlueNose

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Auto spoilers on the ground and they also suplement the aelerons in flight. Carbon brakes on a dry runway is like hitting the 3 wire.

Yep, when the runway's tight and especially if it's wet, give me one of those over a B-jet with the TR's pulled off (KR's signature contribution to the aerospace industry) any day of the week. Hard to fathom how they've overrun two of them now in the past few years. Not pointing to cause in either case, but it's easy to get complacent with the 300 because it stops so well.
 

ksu_aviator

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FYI - The POH has much longer landing distances for standing water than APG or the QRH. Always check the POH for anything other than dry runways and NEVER use wet numbers.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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Embraer says wet is wet. None of this reflective nonsense or grooved is effectively dry bs. I'll wait for the facts as far as required runway distance is concerned.
 

ksu_aviator

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Embraer says wet is wet. None of this reflective nonsense or grooved is effectively dry bs. I'll wait for the facts as far as required runway distance is concerned.

No. They say: (FOL505-018/14)

By definition, a wet runway is a pavement covered by less than 3mm (0.125?) of water and the standing water has more than 25% of the pavement covered with more than 3mm of water.

The amount of rain, at the moment of the landing, may be an indicator. Moderate to heavy rain increases the possibility of having greater water quantities on the runway and using standing water numbers may be more adequate than wet. Runway grooving is also a factor, but do not overestimate it. If you know that the runway drainage is good, the wet numbers may be used, but if the runway is unknown, be conservative. Also, be careful when evaluating a light rain over a non-grooved runway or a concrete polished surface. This may result in a slippery surface, which reduces braking action. In this case, the standing water numbers are more recommended than wet.

To rephrase, use wet if the runway is grooved and the rain is light or ended. Use standing water for everything else. Embraer never says wet is wet. Who told you that? Unless the runway is grooved, it is impossible for it to be actively raining and have less than 3mm of water on the surface. A grooved runway can get you a wet surface. A normal runway must be standing water during active rain and for some time after the rain ends.

As to your other question, I can't answer that. All I'm saying is, don't use wet numbers except in those rare circumstances that you can. Use the POH and standing water.

On a side note, the FAA does not approve of using dry data for grooved runways: (AC91-79A)

1. MANUFACTURERS AND AIRPLANE FLIGHT MANUAL (AFM) DATA. In
accordance with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification rules, the FAA-approved
AFM data are determined only for dry runway conditions. Some manufacturers provide
supplemental FAA-approved AFM data for operation on wet grooved runways. Manufacturers
may also provide supplemental advisory landing distance data for conditions beyond those
required by regulation; however, they are not used in lieu of the advised 15 percent safety
margin. The data contained in these supplements, although not FAA approved, are based on the
same flight test data used to generate the FAA-approved dry runway takeoff and landing
performance presented in the AFM. Performance is calculated using analytical corrections to
dry runway performance utilizing methods appropriate for aircraft certification outside the
United States. Again, at least a 15 percent safety margin should be applied to these data.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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ksu, you obviously have never been to a recurrent at Options. Once again, I will wait for the facts.
 
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