OPEC accuses U.S. on oil prices

[Donald]

Billions annually compared to the billions weekly were spending now? For what? To have more terrorists in Iraq now than before the war began?This war has lasted longer than WW2 with no end in sight.

So Duck killer, does that mean you would have continued with the sanctions and no-fly zones? For how long? I think there is more end in sight now.
As I see it, there were only 3 options. 1 continue sanctions and no-fly zones indefinitely. 2 Pull all troops out of the region and let Saddam do as he pleased. 3 Take him out.
Anybody, what would you have done? Lets take a vote.

 

[Poahi]

Glad you asked.

Let's go talk to the people that actually run this country......

If you really want to understand what drives the American economy, read "The Creature from Jekyll Island". It's the story about the Fed. Once you understand how it works, you'll understand how we monetize our economy and that we don't even need tax revenue at all. Sound crazy? Read the book. Absolutely nothing backs our currency - it's essentially a social contract.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Edward_Griffin

 

[coffeedog]

The US President had never controlled the max price of a barrel of oil around the world.

Yes and no...do you disagree that as the single largest consumer, our own futures market is having the largest influence?

 

[lowecur]

If you really want to understand what drives the American economy, read "The Creature from Jekyll Island". It's the story about the Fed. Once you understand how it works, you'll understand how we monetize our economy and that we don't even need tax revenue at all. Sound crazy? Read the book. Absolutely nothing backs our currency - it's essentially a social contract.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Edward_Griffin

Just another appendage tool used by the multinationals to fund worldwide expansion.

These multinationals have done little to reinvest their wealth back in the USA or it's people. They invest their profits made overseas in such things as stock buybacks and stock option bonus' for mgt. The average american see little benefit. Just look at the trillions that have been spent manipulating the world, and then look at our highways and bridges and the cost to bring them up to speed.

The secondary vultures are the medical and legal community. They are the domestic terrorists that line their own pockets and keep prices on medical and consumer goods sky high. The US taxpayer takes care of the poor and illegals that use our medical system, yet many in the middle class can't even afford health insurance. Many uninsured middle class people are going overseas for medical treatment rather than file for bankruptcy if they need major operations.

It's a disgrace that this charade is allowed to continue. Many countries in Europe have mutiple political parties, yet we are brainwashed into believing that (2) parties are all we need. I was watching a story about Norway I believe, and they have 7 parties. With a (2) party system, life will continue until the machinery finally breaks down. Is anarchy in our future? Mmmmm.

imp: ​

 

[Andy]

Bush removed caps on oil futures, and that is the reason that oil future prices have since moved so quickly.

The daily limits on light crude (CL) on the NYMEX are $10/bbl ($10,000 per contract). There usually isn't a limit on the front month; I'd need to verify. http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/CL_/48
For Brent (LO), it's traded on the international petroleum exchange. There are no daily limits. http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/BC/48

Bush did not remove any daily trading (lock) limits on oil futures. Due to the extreme leverage available, futures are dangerous enough with limits.

 

[coffeedog]

The daily limits on light crude (CL) on the NYMEX are $10/bbl ($10,000 per contract). There usually isn't a limit on the front month; I'd need to verify. http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/CL_/48
For Brent (LO), it's traded on the international petroleum exchange. There are no daily limits. http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/BC/48

Bush did not remove any daily trading (lock) limits on oil futures. Due to the extreme leverage available, futures are dangerous enough with limits.

Well I was wrong about who signed the legislation, it was actually Clinton. Here is the link, and overview:

http://www.cftc.gov/stellent/groups/public/@newsroom/documents/file/event091807_enron-levinbill.pdf

The "Enron loophole" is a provision that was inserted at the last-minute, without opportunity for debate, into commodity legislation that was attached to an omnibus appropriations bill and passed by Congress in late December 2000, in the waning hours of the 106th Congress. This loophole exempted from U.S. government regulation the electronic trading of energy commodities by large traders. The loophole has helped foster the explosive growth of trading on unregulated electronic energy exchanges. It has also rendered U.S. energy markets more vulnerable to price manipulation and excessive speculation with resulting price distortions. This legislation is necessary to close the Enron loophole and reduce our vulnerability to manipulation and excessive speculation by providing for regulation of the electronic trading of energy commodities by large traders.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/08/enron_and_todays_oil_and_gas_p.html
http://seekingalpha.com/article/16149-oil-price-the-need-to-put-the-cop-back-on-the-beat

 

[Andy]

Coffeedog, moving commodity trading to electronic exchanges is not the problem. That merely modernized commodity trading. And electronic trading is done in just about every commodity.
Speculation is the problem. And you can't regulate speculation.

 

[puddlejumper101]

coffeedog, thanks. I'm not an economist so are you saying caps should reinstated. Would that bring oil prices down?

Puddlejumper, I agree, bad decisions are made by every administration. And the Iraq war may have been a bad one, time will tell. Would you have continued spending billions on the sanctions and nofly zones against Saddam? At times, I'm really on the fence about the war. I even believe W had a personal agenda against Saddam. But I was also ready to do something to end it. At one time, I truly thought we should just pull all troops out of the Middle East (before the war Bravowhiskey) and see how the Muslim nations felt about that

Donald,
I wish Iraq was the only "OOPPS" this administration had...I might actually be ok with it if that was the only blunder. The fact that this administration catered to big business the way it did was also a very big culprit. American corporations had to answer to no one when they started taking their business to other countries. I understand the idea behind a free economy, but in doing so I think we screwed ourselves. No incentives to stay were made and now our debt is in the hands of the Chinese.

Another problem that was mishandled was Katrina and Rita. That, along with many other things, got us to where we are. Before Katrina, refinaries in the US were running full speed ahead. Ever since both of those hurricanes came by, we have not been able to keep up with demand. I believe there is no shortage of oil as much as mismanagement. There is no incentive for this administration to fix it either because once again it caters to big business. High demand, not enough capability to keep up with demand in the way of refinaries and WHAM..prices through the roof. Katrina and Rita gave oil comapnies the excuse needed to say they could not supply the US with enough refined oil to keep up with demand. Before these two hurricanes this was hardly an issue. They found a scapegoat and Bushy has done NOTHING. Except make tons of $$$ from it. Between OPEC, oil companies and a lame duck president who is also vested in oil there is no incentive to bring the price down...if anything keep it high for a while until they HAVE to bring it down just before S&I$ hits the fan. How far out that is who knows.

And then there is IRAQ...WOW...and I must say I backed the Republicans once upon a time but Bushy has made me very mad.

 

[Dizel8]

Speculation is the problem. And you can't regulate speculation.

Not that I remember much of the article, but the Indian finance minister I believe, have suggested stopping trading of oil futures in India. Further, in the same article, it mentioned that India has been investing in foreign oil fields and that this had reduced their price for a barrel. Will see if I can find the article. (I did)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/b...38ba1fc2123dc0&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

"PJ101:Another problem that was mishandled was Katrina and Rita. That, along with many other things, got us to where we are."

How does that affect the price of oil? The way I see it, lack of refining capability should drive up gasoline prices, since there is less of it (not enough being refined), yet not sure how that should affect oil.

Like someone else has said, the loss of value of the US dollar is probably the largest driver of oil prices. If you look at foreign currencies not pegged at the dollar, the rise in oil prices is much smaller. We no longer maintain the gold standard, other factors are used, and even how much respect we enjoy around the world will affect the dollar value.

Here is a chart that shows a doubling of oilprices in euros, but a tripling in dollars:

http://bp1.blogger.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/R0o55A_lq9I/AAAAAAAAC3g/x15tHT218BU/s1600-h/oilprices.bmp

It will be interesting to see if the value of the dollar increases after the election.

 

[puddlejumper101]

Not that I remember much of the article, but the Indian finance minister I believe, stopped allowing trading of oil futures in India. Further, in the same article, it mentioned that India has been investing in foreign oil fields and that this had reduced their price for a barrel. Will see if I can find the article.

"PJ101:Another problem that was mishandled was Katrina and Rita. That, along with many other things, got us to where we are."

How does that affect the price of oil? The way I see it, lack of refining capability should drive up gasoline prices, since there is less of it (not enough being refined), yet not sure how that should affect oil.

Like someone else has said, the loss of value of the US dollar is probably the largest driver of oil prices. If you look at foreign currencies not pegged at the dollar, the rise in oil prices is much smaller. We no longer maintain the gold standard, other factors are used, and even how much respect we enjoy around the world will affect the dollar value.

Here is a chart that shows a doubling of oilprices in euros, but a tripling in dollars:

http://bp1.blogger.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/R0o55A_lq9I/AAAAAAAAC3g/x15tHT218BU/s1600-h/oilprices.bmp

It will be interesting to see if the value of the dollar increases after the election.

What I mean by that is everyone is doing their part in driving the prices up both in crude and refined oil. Opec with the crude and the oil companies with excuses. Everyone involved is taking advantage of the opportunity. Big money is being made by both foreign governments and oil companies at the expense of the U.S. consumer and the administration has done nothing about it. Many of the governments that have something against the U.S. have found a way to cause harm to our economy. There are many things at play here and no one did anything about it.

This will continue until enough harm has been made and it no longer is a viable option. OPEC, and oil companies don't want to bankrupt our economy because that will cost them too...but they will continue to drive the price until they feel they have hit the point where it is no longer a viable option...then the price will fall...just watch...and once we have semi-recovered...boom price goes up again. OPEC has us by the cojones...and what does Bush and his cohorts do about it? Nothing...why should they...they are making serious $$$ right now too from this. This whole thing makes me sick...people will go as far as you let them...especially foreign governmets with a chip on their shoulder. Have you seen who OPEC is? Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela...amongst others...geez they don't want to screw us or anything. I would not be surprised if the Chinese are not paying OPEC to keep that price up there because this means more $$$ for them too because they know Americans have a lifestyle to maintain and will pay high for oil for as long as they can...thus adding to their interest on our debt. Like someone said earlier...this is global and I think the objective by some is to royaly screw us. In twenty years our economy might be in the hands of our so called adversaries in the Middle East and China. Time will tell...but to me this administration is very responsible for this.

 

[puddlejumper101]

Our dependancy on foreign oil has to stop...and not because of Global Warming...but because if we don't find a way to do this we will be China's Puerto Rico. I don't care if we have to run our lives on corn, wheat, sugar cane, trash, wind, whatever...just not on OPECs oil. This is something that affects us all...this profession is tied directly to this mess. Bush needs to leave...that's a start to fixing this mess...problem is I don't know if our new President will be up for this.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

So far, the Iraq war has cost over $3 Trillion dollars. I think it is actually approaching $5 Trillion in total costs now.

Our Trade Deficit is massive, which devalues the dollar. Our Trade Deficit situation won't improve in the short term, because we IMPORT SO MUCH OIL.

To fix the Trade Deficit, we have to stop importing oil, which means we need alternative transportation fuels.

Our Federal Budget Deficit's main driver is the Iraq War. We are in the Middle East to protect our oil interests.

If we didn't have to import oil, we could pull out of the Middle East, which would cut our Budget Deficit dramatically.

Energy is the #1 problem facing America right now. Getting off oil as a transportation fuel is the key to fixing our financial problems.

I don't hear ANY of the politicians saying much at all on this issue.

cliff
GRB

 

[~~~^~~~]

One simple rule would stop most speculation:

“The buyer must take delivery.”​

OPEC’s concern is the same as other producers of commodities right now. They do not know what the true market price for their goods are. Speculation alone may be driving a 40% to 100% increase in crude oil products throughout the chain. Seems like a good problem to have, right, well no.

Yes, quarterly profits are huge, off the charts. The problem is forward planning. These multi billion dollar decades long projects require stable prices to evaluate and plan for the future. A deep water drilling platform can cost more than the current market value of DAL, NWA and United combined. The oil producers need to know if the product this platform produces will be worth $60, $90, or $100. And what, if anything, is a dollar worth?

The producers are stuck with a vexing problem. They all dear the bottom will drop out of oil prices. At the same time oil is traded in dollars which has lost nearly half of its value compared with most major currencies. When Bush took office the dollar traded at $1.07 Euros, today’s rate is $0.65. The Federal Reserve, trying to avert a recession, has signaled to the World that the US Government will continue pumping out cash at low interest rates to anyone willing to take some. The dollar will continue to collapse, wiping out those responsible folks like me who have saved for our future (in dollars).

Oil may have to run to the relative stability of the Euro.

In the mean time, the Princes wonder what to do with the Billions in dollars? Do you invest in additional drilling and refineries? What if this current unsustainable price collapses to a more reasonable level? Will you get stuck holding the bag? Some have decided building Vegas on the sea and launching huge international airlines is a safer bet than investing in crude capacity.

To restore some sanity to the oil business, we need to stop derivative trading. The easiest way to do this in mu opinion is to force those who buy contracts to actually take delivery of the product, or at a minimum be licensed to trade in the product.

We do this in other industries. Take used cars as an example. I have to register my car, insure my car, be licensed for its operation. In my State I can not sell a car for a profit without a Dealer’s license, nor may I sell more than three cars yearly even at a loss. I can not participate in Dealer Auctions, can not buy insurance salvage, or even purchase a car to re-sell its parts. Despite the beautiful tool EBay provides the car market, my State prevents my participation in a speculative fashion. I have to own the cars I buy, what a concept.

 

[sat74]

The secondary vultures are the medical and legal community. They are the domestic terrorists that line their own pockets and keep prices on medical and consumer goods sky high. The US taxpayer takes care of the poor and illegals that use our medical system, yet many in the middle class can't even afford health insurance. Many uninsured middle class people are going overseas for medical treatment rather than file for bankruptcy if they need major operations.

It's a disgrace that this charade is allowed to continue. Many countries in Europe have mutiple political parties, yet we are brainwashed into believing that (2) parties are all we need. I was watching a story about Norway I believe, and they have 7 parties. With a (2) party system, life will continue until the machinery finally breaks down. Is anarchy in our future? Mmmmm.

imp: ​

Everyone should watch the documentary "Sicko" about how f%%ked we are with medical care.

If this was happening in Europe there would be mass protests and strikes. Yet here in America, the average, and probably ignorant and complacent citizen is too afraid of the government to protest anything. We the people are supposed to run this governement, not the other way around. It's been out of hand too long and I honestly do not know how we the people will have regain control!

Until then, I will be looking for jobs overseas and severing my ties with this country. This has been the American nightmare, not the American dream!

 

[~~~^~~~]

One other point I failed to make....

Two bit dictators are bad for oil prices. Again, for emphasis, two bit dictators reduce oil prices. The crazier the better.

Why? Because they have to sell their oil to somebody. They can not afford to sit on it.

Hugo Chavez serves as an excellent example. He sells more oil at lower prices than anyone else. He has done a lousy job of managing Venezuela's economy and must bring in as much quick cash as he can to keep his corrupt government in power.

Saddam Hussein sold more oil, 3.5 million barrels a day, than the US/Iraqi partnerships can produce which has been nearly half that amount, 1.8 million barrells a day, which has been decreasing at around 4% a year.

The US needs to realize that a war is not required to maintain the flow of oil. Quite to the contrary, crazy dictators are the Crazy Eddie's of the oil biz. They help consumers by being unwilling to work with the other members of the Cartels, by running "fire sales" to prop up their governments and by subsidizing oil to other third world nations.

The OPEC members want to sell their oil. The crazies HAVE to sell their oil. There is a difference that benefits consumers.

Arguably, Bush removed Saddam to remove a competitor to his buddies in Arab nations and back in Texas who were heavily invested in the oil business.