OPEC accuses U.S. on oil prices

[Jonny Sacko]

That's hysterical, even the saudi's pissed at piece of crap bush, for scaring prices upward. Even the oil people, that's funny. Bush is as worthless as Prater.

 

[Donald]

You're right raskal. I wish somebody would figure something out. I've been hoping that with the threat of socialized medicine someone would come up with a good idea, but that doesn't seem to be happening. Next time I go see my doc, I intend to ask him how he feels about socialized medicine. I have a great health care plan with Southwest but I still had over 8 thousand dollars out-of-pocket last year with a family of 4. (just finished my taxes) And that was pretty low compared to others I know. As far as trusting industry, I agree that most companies, probably the majority, have very little care for their employees, but its easier to find a better job than find a better government.

 

[BUDDHA145]

I just cant whait for THE BUSH IT to be over!!!!

and his budy FKN DICK cuorrupt CHENEY.

 

[_BravoWhiskey_]

I agree with the deficit spending part. However,we were spending billions annually containing Saddam with no-fly zones and sanctions. None of it was working and it was costing us more and more. Maybe we should have just pulled all troops out of the middle east and let Saddam do what ever he wanted. Also, 9/11 cost us billions and Katrina cost us billions. I'm an independent and Bush is certainly not my favorite pres, but he served during possibly the toughest time in our Nations history. He is no fun to watch or listen to but I still prefer him over Gore or Kerry.

Um, Donald, Saddam is dead.

 

[coffeedog]

Can you be more specific? The dollar has been falling for decades. What can an administration do to reverse that?

Bush removed caps on oil futures, and that is the reason that oil future prices have since moved so quickly.

 

[puddlejumper101]

I know the dollar has been loosing value for decades...but lately it hasn't been on a steady decline like it was before...it is on a downward spiral. When you owe trillions of dollars of course the dollar will tumble. I know there are many people out there who believe Bush was just the President during bad times...but I believe the bad times were made worse by this government's mismanagement. Bad times happen...bad actions or bad choices is what got is here.

 

[lowecur]

Gee, What do you think Lowecur?

Glad you asked.

Let's go talk to the people that actually run this country......Multinational Conglomerates. What, you mean these huge corporations headquartered in the good ol US of A run this country? Yes, they do.

Multinationals are the architects of the "Global Economy." They have had our gov't spend Trillions in aid around the world where peace could be bought. Where it can't be bought, Trillions more is spent to fund the CIA and the Military to try and bring stability and a capitalistic slant to the area.

Why has the dollar been deteriorating over the years. Simple, the USA either can't compete with the cheap products of some regions or they can't compete with gov't subsidies that make foreign products a better deal. So we let the dollar fall to make our products more desirable overseas for our multinational companies. Now the multinationals are not stupid. They also build mfg plants in many of these countries to hedge....smart...but it has taken away the mfg backbone of the USA....dumb. Now, I believe the trade deficit averages around $500-600B per year(someone correct me if I'm wrong). Yet the multinationals and their stockholders are happy because they get the limited access to the China's, Japans, and other Pacific rim closed shops where many American mfgs are locked out.

To do all this, our whore politicians have mortgaged our childrens future. To pay for this grandious scheme the Feds sold bonds to foreigner's and have flooded the market over the years with greenbacks with no controls. The Fox is in the henhouse and he's lick'n his chops. This of course has lead to the Savings and Loan debacle, the dot com bubble, and of course today's housing and credit crunch. They have given the undisciplined American Consumer the green light to spend, spend, spend, thus making the US economy the engine that has created quasi Capitalistic juggernaut economies ruled by either dictators or police states. Today much of our debt is owned by people who only a few years ago wanted to bury us....smart? So today $1 out of every $3. in tax is to pay the interest on the debt to our friends overseas that include the Middle East and China.

Just think, it's possible in the next 10-20 years or sooner, that the USA will be relegated to an also ran with their tin cup extended for a possible reverse Marshall Plan to forgive all the debt we owe. Will it happen in this coming new world order? What do you think? I think they will have won the war without firing a shot, and all our multinational companies that where once headquartered in the USA will belong to our enemies and moved overseas.

Sounds like a plan to me.

imp:​

 

[duck_killer]

However,we were spending billions annually containing Saddam with no-fly zones and sanctions. None of it was working and it was costing us more and more.

Billions annually compared to the billions weekly were spending now? For what? To have more terrorists in Iraq now than before the war began?This war has lasted longer than WW2 with no end in sight.

 

[414Flyer]

Bush removed caps on oil futures, and that is the reason that oil future prices have since moved so quickly.

The US President had never controlled the max price of a barrel of oil around the world.

 

[Donald]

Bush removed caps on oil futures, and that is the reason that oil future prices have since moved so quickly.

coffeedog, thanks. I'm not an economist so are you saying caps should reinstated. Would that bring oil prices down?

Puddlejumper, I agree, bad decisions are made by every administration. And the Iraq war may have been a bad one, time will tell. Would you have continued spending billions on the sanctions and nofly zones against Saddam? At times, I'm really on the fence about the war. I even believe W had a personal agenda against Saddam. But I was also ready to do something to end it. At one time, I truly thought we should just pull all troops out of the Middle East (before the war Bravowhiskey) and see how the Muslim nations felt about that

 

[Donald]

Billions annually compared to the billions weekly were spending now? For what? To have more terrorists in Iraq now than before the war began?This war has lasted longer than WW2 with no end in sight.

So Duck killer, does that mean you would have continued with the sanctions and no-fly zones? For how long? I think there is more end in sight now.
As I see it, there were only 3 options. 1 continue sanctions and no-fly zones indefinitely. 2 Pull all troops out of the region and let Saddam do as he pleased. 3 Take him out.
Anybody, what would you have done? Lets take a vote.

 

[Poahi]

Glad you asked.

Let's go talk to the people that actually run this country......

If you really want to understand what drives the American economy, read "The Creature from Jekyll Island". It's the story about the Fed. Once you understand how it works, you'll understand how we monetize our economy and that we don't even need tax revenue at all. Sound crazy? Read the book. Absolutely nothing backs our currency - it's essentially a social contract.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Edward_Griffin

 

[coffeedog]

The US President had never controlled the max price of a barrel of oil around the world.

Yes and no...do you disagree that as the single largest consumer, our own futures market is having the largest influence?

 

[lowecur]

If you really want to understand what drives the American economy, read "The Creature from Jekyll Island". It's the story about the Fed. Once you understand how it works, you'll understand how we monetize our economy and that we don't even need tax revenue at all. Sound crazy? Read the book. Absolutely nothing backs our currency - it's essentially a social contract.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Edward_Griffin

Just another appendage tool used by the multinationals to fund worldwide expansion.

These multinationals have done little to reinvest their wealth back in the USA or it's people. They invest their profits made overseas in such things as stock buybacks and stock option bonus' for mgt. The average american see little benefit. Just look at the trillions that have been spent manipulating the world, and then look at our highways and bridges and the cost to bring them up to speed.

The secondary vultures are the medical and legal community. They are the domestic terrorists that line their own pockets and keep prices on medical and consumer goods sky high. The US taxpayer takes care of the poor and illegals that use our medical system, yet many in the middle class can't even afford health insurance. Many uninsured middle class people are going overseas for medical treatment rather than file for bankruptcy if they need major operations.

It's a disgrace that this charade is allowed to continue. Many countries in Europe have mutiple political parties, yet we are brainwashed into believing that (2) parties are all we need. I was watching a story about Norway I believe, and they have 7 parties. With a (2) party system, life will continue until the machinery finally breaks down. Is anarchy in our future? Mmmmm.

imp: ​

 

[Andy]

Bush removed caps on oil futures, and that is the reason that oil future prices have since moved so quickly.

The daily limits on light crude (CL) on the NYMEX are $10/bbl ($10,000 per contract). There usually isn't a limit on the front month; I'd need to verify. http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/CL_/48
For Brent (LO), it's traded on the international petroleum exchange. There are no daily limits. http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/BC/48

Bush did not remove any daily trading (lock) limits on oil futures. Due to the extreme leverage available, futures are dangerous enough with limits.

 

[coffeedog]

The daily limits on light crude (CL) on the NYMEX are $10/bbl ($10,000 per contract). There usually isn't a limit on the front month; I'd need to verify. http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/CL_/48
For Brent (LO), it's traded on the international petroleum exchange. There are no daily limits. http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/BC/48

Bush did not remove any daily trading (lock) limits on oil futures. Due to the extreme leverage available, futures are dangerous enough with limits.

Well I was wrong about who signed the legislation, it was actually Clinton. Here is the link, and overview:

http://www.cftc.gov/stellent/groups/public/@newsroom/documents/file/event091807_enron-levinbill.pdf

The "Enron loophole" is a provision that was inserted at the last-minute, without opportunity for debate, into commodity legislation that was attached to an omnibus appropriations bill and passed by Congress in late December 2000, in the waning hours of the 106th Congress. This loophole exempted from U.S. government regulation the electronic trading of energy commodities by large traders. The loophole has helped foster the explosive growth of trading on unregulated electronic energy exchanges. It has also rendered U.S. energy markets more vulnerable to price manipulation and excessive speculation with resulting price distortions. This legislation is necessary to close the Enron loophole and reduce our vulnerability to manipulation and excessive speculation by providing for regulation of the electronic trading of energy commodities by large traders.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/08/enron_and_todays_oil_and_gas_p.html
http://seekingalpha.com/article/16149-oil-price-the-need-to-put-the-cop-back-on-the-beat

 

[Andy]

Coffeedog, moving commodity trading to electronic exchanges is not the problem. That merely modernized commodity trading. And electronic trading is done in just about every commodity.
Speculation is the problem. And you can't regulate speculation.

 

[puddlejumper101]

coffeedog, thanks. I'm not an economist so are you saying caps should reinstated. Would that bring oil prices down?

Puddlejumper, I agree, bad decisions are made by every administration. And the Iraq war may have been a bad one, time will tell. Would you have continued spending billions on the sanctions and nofly zones against Saddam? At times, I'm really on the fence about the war. I even believe W had a personal agenda against Saddam. But I was also ready to do something to end it. At one time, I truly thought we should just pull all troops out of the Middle East (before the war Bravowhiskey) and see how the Muslim nations felt about that

Donald,
I wish Iraq was the only "OOPPS" this administration had...I might actually be ok with it if that was the only blunder. The fact that this administration catered to big business the way it did was also a very big culprit. American corporations had to answer to no one when they started taking their business to other countries. I understand the idea behind a free economy, but in doing so I think we screwed ourselves. No incentives to stay were made and now our debt is in the hands of the Chinese.

Another problem that was mishandled was Katrina and Rita. That, along with many other things, got us to where we are. Before Katrina, refinaries in the US were running full speed ahead. Ever since both of those hurricanes came by, we have not been able to keep up with demand. I believe there is no shortage of oil as much as mismanagement. There is no incentive for this administration to fix it either because once again it caters to big business. High demand, not enough capability to keep up with demand in the way of refinaries and WHAM..prices through the roof. Katrina and Rita gave oil comapnies the excuse needed to say they could not supply the US with enough refined oil to keep up with demand. Before these two hurricanes this was hardly an issue. They found a scapegoat and Bushy has done NOTHING. Except make tons of $$$ from it. Between OPEC, oil companies and a lame duck president who is also vested in oil there is no incentive to bring the price down...if anything keep it high for a while until they HAVE to bring it down just before S&I$ hits the fan. How far out that is who knows.

And then there is IRAQ...WOW...and I must say I backed the Republicans once upon a time but Bushy has made me very mad.

 

[Dizel8]

Speculation is the problem. And you can't regulate speculation.

Not that I remember much of the article, but the Indian finance minister I believe, have suggested stopping trading of oil futures in India. Further, in the same article, it mentioned that India has been investing in foreign oil fields and that this had reduced their price for a barrel. Will see if I can find the article. (I did)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/b...38ba1fc2123dc0&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

"PJ101:Another problem that was mishandled was Katrina and Rita. That, along with many other things, got us to where we are."

How does that affect the price of oil? The way I see it, lack of refining capability should drive up gasoline prices, since there is less of it (not enough being refined), yet not sure how that should affect oil.

Like someone else has said, the loss of value of the US dollar is probably the largest driver of oil prices. If you look at foreign currencies not pegged at the dollar, the rise in oil prices is much smaller. We no longer maintain the gold standard, other factors are used, and even how much respect we enjoy around the world will affect the dollar value.

Here is a chart that shows a doubling of oilprices in euros, but a tripling in dollars:

http://bp1.blogger.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/R0o55A_lq9I/AAAAAAAAC3g/x15tHT218BU/s1600-h/oilprices.bmp

It will be interesting to see if the value of the dollar increases after the election.

 

[puddlejumper101]

Not that I remember much of the article, but the Indian finance minister I believe, stopped allowing trading of oil futures in India. Further, in the same article, it mentioned that India has been investing in foreign oil fields and that this had reduced their price for a barrel. Will see if I can find the article.

"PJ101:Another problem that was mishandled was Katrina and Rita. That, along with many other things, got us to where we are."

How does that affect the price of oil? The way I see it, lack of refining capability should drive up gasoline prices, since there is less of it (not enough being refined), yet not sure how that should affect oil.

Like someone else has said, the loss of value of the US dollar is probably the largest driver of oil prices. If you look at foreign currencies not pegged at the dollar, the rise in oil prices is much smaller. We no longer maintain the gold standard, other factors are used, and even how much respect we enjoy around the world will affect the dollar value.

Here is a chart that shows a doubling of oilprices in euros, but a tripling in dollars:

http://bp1.blogger.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/R0o55A_lq9I/AAAAAAAAC3g/x15tHT218BU/s1600-h/oilprices.bmp

It will be interesting to see if the value of the dollar increases after the election.

What I mean by that is everyone is doing their part in driving the prices up both in crude and refined oil. Opec with the crude and the oil companies with excuses. Everyone involved is taking advantage of the opportunity. Big money is being made by both foreign governments and oil companies at the expense of the U.S. consumer and the administration has done nothing about it. Many of the governments that have something against the U.S. have found a way to cause harm to our economy. There are many things at play here and no one did anything about it.

This will continue until enough harm has been made and it no longer is a viable option. OPEC, and oil companies don't want to bankrupt our economy because that will cost them too...but they will continue to drive the price until they feel they have hit the point where it is no longer a viable option...then the price will fall...just watch...and once we have semi-recovered...boom price goes up again. OPEC has us by the cojones...and what does Bush and his cohorts do about it? Nothing...why should they...they are making serious $$$ right now too from this. This whole thing makes me sick...people will go as far as you let them...especially foreign governmets with a chip on their shoulder. Have you seen who OPEC is? Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela...amongst others...geez they don't want to screw us or anything. I would not be surprised if the Chinese are not paying OPEC to keep that price up there because this means more $$$ for them too because they know Americans have a lifestyle to maintain and will pay high for oil for as long as they can...thus adding to their interest on our debt. Like someone said earlier...this is global and I think the objective by some is to royaly screw us. In twenty years our economy might be in the hands of our so called adversaries in the Middle East and China. Time will tell...but to me this administration is very responsible for this.