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One List for 9E/XJ/Colgan???
- Thread starter RJLoser
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Uncle Bunkle
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SEVEN
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Even with a "fair" list of all 3 company's, the majority of Colgan pilots will still be at the bottom of the list when the integration is complete.
I bet the list will end up looking pretty much like a straight 'relative seniority' integration. In other words if you are 50% up your current list now expect to be about 50% up the combined list with only some slight adjustments from there.
Is DOH a stated factor in ALPA merger policy again? I know it wasn't during the US/AW thing but didn't UA have it put back in there since?
Is DOH a stated factor in ALPA merger policy again? I know it wasn't during the US/AW thing but didn't UA have it put back in there since?
SEVEN
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Pinnacle Hiring?
Maybe I missed it awhile back, but I thought Pinnacle wasn't hiring? Looks like they are now.
http://www.flypinnacle.com/pilotjobs/index.php
Maybe I missed it awhile back, but I thought Pinnacle wasn't hiring? Looks like they are now.
http://www.flypinnacle.com/pilotjobs/index.php
silver02ex
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There's been mentioning of it from Memphis a couple months back, about starting an August class.
That would mean a fairly new hire at Colgan would be senior to 2-3 year FO's at pinnacle/Mesaba.
Well, as 2 year hires are starting to look at CA at colgan, that sounds about right. Sounds like they'll get the benefit of their quicker growth. Similar scenario between UAL/CAL where a 2005 CAL hire is equivalent to a mid 90s UAL hire simply due to growth/no or negative growth.
i fly boxes
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I think what he meant was the guy hired at Colgan last week is in the same spot on their seniority list as the guy at Pinnacle that got hired 2 years ago (or the guy at Mesaba that got furloughed already). I don't think our reserve FOs are anywhere NEAR looking at CA......
SplitBar
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Relative seniority seems mostly fair but it does create windfalls. Lets assume the #1 pilot at Colgan has 8 years. Should he/she be entitled to be in the top few on a combined list and leapfrog over 20+ year XJ/9E pilots and be a top dog 900 Captain? I heard that Fences would also be placed.
snap145
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA..now you wanna be friends with all of us???????..dont give me one bit of same team bullcrap from you of all people...I cant tell you how hilarious it is to see you with your foot stuck in your fat mouth after youve done nothing but verbally bash each and every one of my cohoorts from the safety and comfort of your laptop...you will NEVER be a part of this team, bc you care about only one thing...yourself...I wish everyone at XJ good luck, truth is I am probably gonna get screwed by a "relative" integration....but dont pretend for a minute that you wanna be a team player all of a sudden...youve already made your stance with your stupid idiotic disrespectful comments...and now you wanna be a "team player"...dont worry SEVEN...we will figure it out soon enough..then we can talk about being on the same team...
xjgearbtch
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I'd like to see everyone take a deep breath and take a break it's been, what, three days? Let the economic's staff and lawyers (ALPA) who plan this stuff professionally. Have them set out a game plan. All this chest puffing and speculation does no good. This arm chair quarterbacking just divides us.
Clean slate let's move forward with everyone's success in mind.
Respond don't react!!
Clean slate let's move forward with everyone's success in mind.
Respond don't react!!
SEVEN
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No. I don't want to be your friend. I am being forced into this like all of the other pissed off Mesaba Pilots. So, stop being an ahole. Mesaba pilots already know there is a very good chance we're getting F'ed and many with the PIC time are already applying elsewhere. We are hoping and praying for a positive outcome. So, we don't have to be friends, but we should realize that no Mesaba pilot ever dreamed we could/would be bought by Pinnacle. This industry is ruthless and anything can happen. We'll see what the future holds.
xjhawk
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These last two posts-Snap145 you need to calm down. There are hothead name callers at every company and you are one of them. In other words you are no better than the ones you are talking about. xjgearbitch is walking down the right path. We are togther on this and lets move on and if you see or hear someone spouting off about past difficulties pull them aside and tell them to keep their stupid comments to themselves or leave.
Seniority list intergration will be a tough nut to crack. ALPA says date of hire-but what is fair? All I know is that there are a lot of very senior career pilots at Mesaba and Pinnacle who do not want a 5-8 year Colgan guy being placed above them after they have spent 20 years at their respective company. relative seniority seemed to work at Delta but in this case date of hire with fences might be the best solution. I am in the top 1/4 of Mesaba and I would not want to end up any lower and I am sure that is true for everyone.
The one list and one contract needs to be at the front of our fight since that will make us the strongest.
Seniority list intergration will be a tough nut to crack. ALPA says date of hire-but what is fair? All I know is that there are a lot of very senior career pilots at Mesaba and Pinnacle who do not want a 5-8 year Colgan guy being placed above them after they have spent 20 years at their respective company. relative seniority seemed to work at Delta but in this case date of hire with fences might be the best solution. I am in the top 1/4 of Mesaba and I would not want to end up any lower and I am sure that is true for everyone.
The one list and one contract needs to be at the front of our fight since that will make us the strongest.
snap145
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really? I need to calm down?? interesting..please go read each and every one of my posts and show me one instance where I instigated a fight or initiated a name calling session with anyone...you are wrong...its just horridly ironic and pretty much clear to everyone that your friend SEVEN is a loud mouth and now ever since the big bad wolf came in and ate up Mesaba...he all of a sudden isnt talking trash anymore...its comical...trust me we are just as displeased about this transaction as you are...and I wish nothinhg but the best to both of us...again read my prior posts...telling me to calm down wont do any good...sorry I dont bite...hes said way too many damaging things to way too many pinnacle pilots for way too long...you guys are senior to us relativley speaking...if we do a relative integration its guys like me who are fairly junior (3 years) in theyre seat who are going to get screwed...
suupah
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There is going to be significant growth at CJC while the list is being figured out. I am pretty sure they will take a snap shot of when the merger actually took place and put all the new hires after that date on the bottom.
As long as nobody loses what they currently have, I think any integration formula will be acceptable.
As long as nobody loses what they currently have, I think any integration formula will be acceptable.
V1cutsrfun
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There are certainly lessons learned from Mergers Past... USair is pure Cancer while DAL merger went significantly better.
I can say that everybody I have spoken to at Colgan wants to "leapfrog" over anyone else... quite the opposite.
With the growth plans in place for Q's...above the "firm order numbers" a single list merger with a short list like Colgan's conceivably could absorbed over the next 24 months growth... as the length of the combined 9E/XJ/9L sen list would be more then 3 times of length of 9E or XJ's current lists individually. In theory, If all 3 lists were to be combined by relative senority today the lists length would be 2800ish. If 9L were to stop hiring immediatly, recall XJ then move forward with the growth of both fleet plans, there would be an increase in all relative senority by 400-600ish numbers at the bottom of the list.
Let's all just stick together.... no bickering, lest we all need to carry signs together in the future.
V1
I can say that everybody I have spoken to at Colgan wants to "leapfrog" over anyone else... quite the opposite.
With the growth plans in place for Q's...above the "firm order numbers" a single list merger with a short list like Colgan's conceivably could absorbed over the next 24 months growth... as the length of the combined 9E/XJ/9L sen list would be more then 3 times of length of 9E or XJ's current lists individually. In theory, If all 3 lists were to be combined by relative senority today the lists length would be 2800ish. If 9L were to stop hiring immediatly, recall XJ then move forward with the growth of both fleet plans, there would be an increase in all relative senority by 400-600ish numbers at the bottom of the list.
Let's all just stick together.... no bickering, lest we all need to carry signs together in the future.
V1
SEVEN
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What do you want to hear pal? Do you feel better now.....you got even with me? This could have been the other way around but it wasn't. You got lucky. I'll admit, some of the stuff I have posted on here in the past was a little over the top regarding Pinnacle, but make no mistake, when guys in the conference call are comparing our safety records as if they are parallel that is just wrong on every level. You know it, and every Pinnacle and Mesaba pilot knows it. So stop pretending that you guys were on the same playing field. The majority of my previous Pinnacle posts were spot on regarding the type of company it has been in the past. I can't speak for the future but am hopeful Mesaba and it's pilot group will make it better. But at the end of the day, it is what it is. I'll live with it................................for now.
altimaklr
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I don't have a problem with a relative newbee at Colgan being senior to me as a 3yr FO, because there will be fences around the CRJ/Prop fleet and I have no desire to fly on the saab or Q, at least where they are based at now. And if I did, it wouldn't be fair for me to use my seniority on them until the Colgan guys have their chance as well.
Get off your highhorse. You won't make anything better at Pinnacle. Didn't you leave 9E to go to XJ? What a dumb lateral move.
Uncle Bunkle
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suupah
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While I see your point, I think that you should have every right to bid a Q if you would like. Especially if new bases open up and/or the a payrate is negotiated that reflects the size of the airplane. I think the company would want it that way anyway esp. with the rapid expansion and lack of FO's at Colgan with the flight time to upgrade on the Q. As long as nobody is getting displaced off of their current equipment, and the seniority list is constructed considering relative seniority at the original properties, I don't see why fences are that important.
SEVEN
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No, I left a 135 pic job to Mesaba....in hindsight, probably a bad move. No one's on a highhorse, just one of every Mesaba pilot that is sick to their stomach to be Phil's personal you know what. One of your fellow flight attendants said it just right on the DTW bus today......."welcome to Hell!"
Get a clue. Mesaba wasn't Hell to work at, not looking forward to the unknown.
Hope you can understand.
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30West
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Get a life
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snap145
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yes SEVEN i feel alot better knowing that I may go back on eternal reserve and probably face an American Eagle like upgrade time once the lists merge...I chose to come to 9E...for what its worth I couldve gone to Mesaba..but I made the choice and now just like you were probably both gonna get screwed....contrary to what you may think, I think XJ is a great operation and they ALWAYS give me a ride home when I ask, I am not a vindictive individual...I pride myself on professionalism in and out of the cockpit, and that is why your comments bother me so much, because for every bad apple here at 9E...we have 10 that are just as good as anyone who EVER wore a Mesaba uniform...I dont want to see bad things happen to any XJ or 9E pilot...including you...fact is this is not a who has the bigger johnson contest...there are people's lives at stake here...mortgages, kids, cars, etc...dont matter which certificate you fly for...PS...UNKLE BUCKLE....get a life...those "Colgan Pukes" deserve a fair chance at integration just as much as any Pinnacle or Mesaba pilot does...they are an ALPA carrier just like us and will get the same oppurtunities we do...
So you never worked at Pinnacle? Or left Pinnacle to go to a 135 pic job?
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