Old Contracts and Pay Scales for legacies?

[BillJBrake]

Does anyone have this data available, or is there a website that has it? I've googled and haven't found much.

I'm curious what the hourly rates were at American, United, Continental, Delta, Northwest, etc, through the 1990s and up until 2001, vs what they are now.

 

[fam62c]

Does anyone have this data available, or is there a website that has it? I've googled and haven't found much.

I'm curious what the hourly rates were at American, United, Continental, Delta, Northwest, etc, through the 1990s and up until 2001, vs what they are now.

They were higher due to a variety of economic forces that were not sustainable and are unlikely to be repeated anytime soon. Cheap fuel, a booming economy (fueled by massive consumer debt), and high demand for travel by corporations who didn't worry much about cost. The sustained, debt-fueled boom was followed by the inevitable bust, that's been the pattern since humans invented commerce.

To get late 1990's contracts you need a late 1990's economy and that will always come with a price that will have to be paid at some point in the future. Better to look forward than back.

 

[NoPFactor]

They were higher due to a variety of economic forces that were not sustainable and are unlikely to be repeated anytime soon. Cheap fuel, a booming economy (fueled by massive consumer debt), and high demand for travel by corporations who didn't worry much about cost. The sustained, debt-fueled boom was followed by the inevitable bust, that's been the pattern since humans invented commerce.

To get late 1990's contracts you need a late 1990's economy and that will always come with a price that will have to be paid at some point in the future. Better to look forward than back.

Spot on.Good advice too.

 

[Green]

They were higher due to a variety of economic forces that were not sustainable and are unlikely to be repeated anytime soon. Cheap fuel, a booming economy (fueled by massive consumer debt), and high demand for travel by corporations who didn't worry much about cost. The sustained, debt-fueled boom was followed by the inevitable bust, that's been the pattern since humans invented commerce.

To get late 1990's contracts you need a late 1990's economy and that will always come with a price that will have to be paid at some point in the future. Better to look forward than back.

I disagree. Do you think management is making less than they were in 2001? The legacies from 10-15 years ago were horribly inefficient. It was not a matter of just high pay rates. Not to mention the glut of overcapacity flooding the market. A right sized, efficient industry can easily afford to pay 2001 pay rates.

If SWA can afford to pay a 737 CA 300+K per year then UAL can afford to pay 300+ to a 747 driver.

FYI the top Delta/UAL rates from the pre 911 contracts were around 340/hour if I'm not mistaken.

 

[fam62c]

I disagree. Do you think management is making less than they were in 2001? The legacies from 10-15 years ago were horribly inefficient. It was not a matter of just high pay rates. Not to mention the glut of overcapacity flooding the market. A right sized, efficient industry can easily afford to pay 2001 pay rates.

If SWA can afford to pay a 737 CA 300+K per year then UAL can afford to pay 300+ to a 747 driver.

FYI the top Delta/UAL rates from the pre 911 contracts were around 340/hour if I'm not mistaken.

That may be true as far as rates go. A bigger factor than rates is productivity, for a given W2 total how many hours did the pilot actually fly? Some of those older contracts resulted in a lot of pay for little actual productivity. Rates are part of it but the contract needs to be looked at as a whole. The higher the productivity the higher the rates can be because you need fewer pilots.

 

[kj6991]

Does anyone have this data available, or is there a website that has it? I've googled and haven't found much.

I'm curious what the hourly rates were at American, United, Continental, Delta, Northwest, etc, through the 1990s and up until 2001, vs what they are now.

Are you looking to get depressed this weekend?

 

[machtuch]

go back further and ask yourself what a 74 capt at NWA was making in 1980. Its a pie and your getting less and less of it...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

That may be true as far as rates go. A bigger factor than rates is productivity, for a given W2 total how many hours did the pilot actually fly? Some of those older contracts resulted in a lot of pay for little actual productivity. Rates are part of it but the contract needs to be looked at as a whole. The higher the productivity the higher the rates can be because you need fewer pilots.

Somebody make an intervention with this poor soul and lets try to break his addiction to the management koolaid!

 

[labatt]

Somebody make an intervention with this poor soul and lets try to break his addiction to the management koolaid!

Anyone up for an over-under on when we see something like this?

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/embraer-reveals-vision-for-single-pilot-airliners-343348/ :erm:

 

[BillJBrake]

They were higher due to a variety of economic forces that were not sustainable and are unlikely to be repeated anytime soon. Cheap fuel, a booming economy (fueled by massive consumer debt), and high demand for travel by corporations who didn't worry much about cost. The sustained, debt-fueled boom was followed by the inevitable bust, that's been the pattern since humans invented commerce.

To get late 1990's contracts you need a late 1990's economy and that will always come with a price that will have to be paid at some point in the future. Better to look forward than back.

Ok, thanks for answering a question I didn't ask. I agree with this but this is not what I asked...I asked if anyone had the pay scales or contracts for that time frame, not for the reasons why those pay rates were what they were.