Old Contracts and Pay Scales for legacies?

[BillJBrake]

Does anyone have this data available, or is there a website that has it? I've googled and haven't found much.

I'm curious what the hourly rates were at American, United, Continental, Delta, Northwest, etc, through the 1990s and up until 2001, vs what they are now.

 

[fam62c]

Does anyone have this data available, or is there a website that has it? I've googled and haven't found much.

I'm curious what the hourly rates were at American, United, Continental, Delta, Northwest, etc, through the 1990s and up until 2001, vs what they are now.

They were higher due to a variety of economic forces that were not sustainable and are unlikely to be repeated anytime soon. Cheap fuel, a booming economy (fueled by massive consumer debt), and high demand for travel by corporations who didn't worry much about cost. The sustained, debt-fueled boom was followed by the inevitable bust, that's been the pattern since humans invented commerce.

To get late 1990's contracts you need a late 1990's economy and that will always come with a price that will have to be paid at some point in the future. Better to look forward than back.

 

[NoPFactor]

They were higher due to a variety of economic forces that were not sustainable and are unlikely to be repeated anytime soon. Cheap fuel, a booming economy (fueled by massive consumer debt), and high demand for travel by corporations who didn't worry much about cost. The sustained, debt-fueled boom was followed by the inevitable bust, that's been the pattern since humans invented commerce.

To get late 1990's contracts you need a late 1990's economy and that will always come with a price that will have to be paid at some point in the future. Better to look forward than back.

Spot on.Good advice too.

 

[Green]

They were higher due to a variety of economic forces that were not sustainable and are unlikely to be repeated anytime soon. Cheap fuel, a booming economy (fueled by massive consumer debt), and high demand for travel by corporations who didn't worry much about cost. The sustained, debt-fueled boom was followed by the inevitable bust, that's been the pattern since humans invented commerce.

To get late 1990's contracts you need a late 1990's economy and that will always come with a price that will have to be paid at some point in the future. Better to look forward than back.

I disagree. Do you think management is making less than they were in 2001? The legacies from 10-15 years ago were horribly inefficient. It was not a matter of just high pay rates. Not to mention the glut of overcapacity flooding the market. A right sized, efficient industry can easily afford to pay 2001 pay rates.

If SWA can afford to pay a 737 CA 300+K per year then UAL can afford to pay 300+ to a 747 driver.

FYI the top Delta/UAL rates from the pre 911 contracts were around 340/hour if I'm not mistaken.

 

[fam62c]

I disagree. Do you think management is making less than they were in 2001? The legacies from 10-15 years ago were horribly inefficient. It was not a matter of just high pay rates. Not to mention the glut of overcapacity flooding the market. A right sized, efficient industry can easily afford to pay 2001 pay rates.

If SWA can afford to pay a 737 CA 300+K per year then UAL can afford to pay 300+ to a 747 driver.

FYI the top Delta/UAL rates from the pre 911 contracts were around 340/hour if I'm not mistaken.

That may be true as far as rates go. A bigger factor than rates is productivity, for a given W2 total how many hours did the pilot actually fly? Some of those older contracts resulted in a lot of pay for little actual productivity. Rates are part of it but the contract needs to be looked at as a whole. The higher the productivity the higher the rates can be because you need fewer pilots.

 

[kj6991]

Does anyone have this data available, or is there a website that has it? I've googled and haven't found much.

I'm curious what the hourly rates were at American, United, Continental, Delta, Northwest, etc, through the 1990s and up until 2001, vs what they are now.

Are you looking to get depressed this weekend?

 

[machtuch]

go back further and ask yourself what a 74 capt at NWA was making in 1980. Its a pie and your getting less and less of it...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

That may be true as far as rates go. A bigger factor than rates is productivity, for a given W2 total how many hours did the pilot actually fly? Some of those older contracts resulted in a lot of pay for little actual productivity. Rates are part of it but the contract needs to be looked at as a whole. The higher the productivity the higher the rates can be because you need fewer pilots.

Somebody make an intervention with this poor soul and lets try to break his addiction to the management koolaid!

 

[labatt]

Somebody make an intervention with this poor soul and lets try to break his addiction to the management koolaid!

Anyone up for an over-under on when we see something like this?

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/embraer-reveals-vision-for-single-pilot-airliners-343348/ :erm:

 

[BillJBrake]

They were higher due to a variety of economic forces that were not sustainable and are unlikely to be repeated anytime soon. Cheap fuel, a booming economy (fueled by massive consumer debt), and high demand for travel by corporations who didn't worry much about cost. The sustained, debt-fueled boom was followed by the inevitable bust, that's been the pattern since humans invented commerce.

To get late 1990's contracts you need a late 1990's economy and that will always come with a price that will have to be paid at some point in the future. Better to look forward than back.

Ok, thanks for answering a question I didn't ask. I agree with this but this is not what I asked...I asked if anyone had the pay scales or contracts for that time frame, not for the reasons why those pay rates were what they were.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Does anyone have this data available, or is there a website that has it? I've googled and haven't found much.

I'm curious what the hourly rates were at American, United, Continental, Delta, Northwest, etc, through the 1990s and up until 2001, vs what they are now.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040325213848/http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/dal/dal.htm

This is the best that I could do. This snapshot was taken in 2004, so UA, AA, CAL, NWA and US had already been chopped. It looks like DL was the last large legacy standing at that point.

 

[kj6991]

http://web.archive.org/web/20040325213848/http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/dal/dal.htm

This is the best that I could do. This snapshot was taken in 2004, so UA, AA, CAL, NWA and US had already been chopped. It looks like DL was the last large legacy standing at that point.

Doesn't get any more depressing than that

 

[fam62c]

Ok, thanks for answering a question I didn't ask. I agree with this but this is not what I asked...I asked if anyone had the pay scales or contracts for that time frame, not for the reasons why those pay rates were what they were.

Sorry, please forgive me Seriously, this is Flightinfo.....it's not information it's entertainment. Maybe e-mail the folks who run APC, they seem to have more actual information over there and might be able to provide those historical numbers for you.

 

[SplitBar]

Anyone up for an over-under on when we see something like this?

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/embraer-reveals-vision-for-single-pilot-airliners-343348/ :erm:

For so many reasons, it will never happen.

 

[LearLove]

Was it the summer of 2000 or 2001 that UAL got $325/hour for the 747? I believe that may have been the all time high (excluding whoever got parody plus a few %, Delta?).

 

[SWA Bubba]

Was it the summer of 2000 or 2001 that UAL got $325/hour for the 747? I believe that may have been the all time high (excluding whoever got parody plus a few %, Delta?).

I assume you meant "parity plus a few %," although "parody" would probably encourage a more entertaining thread creep.

Bubba

 

[LXApilot]

Delta's contact was first. The Sep 2000 contract at United was Delta+1.

 

[swingtrader]

click on the SWA icon and check their payrates at that time. Thats a big reason why SWA was not the preferred airline/career choice prior to 9-11.

 

[waveflyer]

Click on the united button, contemplate two furloughs and you'll see the reason united is not the preferred choice since.
What's your point swingtrader?
Bc I remember when my uncle (AA retired) was looked down on by a panAm pilot during b scales.
We ever going to grow up about this crap?

 

[waveflyer]

Delta's contact was first. The Sep 2000 contract at United was Delta+1.

Delta had another post 9/11