Ok is my instructor messing with me?

[gear_guy]

Just to play devils advocate here... so if someone asked you how many hyd pumps were on each system... you'd say "who cares? It's either working or it's not!"

Well actually.....I think one should only be concerned with what one has control over. You see, as a pilot, you are a manager. You manage things to allow the airplane to do it's job. So there is no need in knowing if there is a resevoir fuel tank. All you need to know is how to manage that fuel properly(which does'nt include knowing how many tanks there are in a 152). I could understand if he asked how many gallons it held, fuel flow, etc. You know....things you can control. As a CFI use some common sense. Don't waste your students time and memory on knowing things that won't save their life. Just my opinion. And I taught that way. I never got fired.

 

[minitour]

Well actually.....I think one should only be concerned with what one has control over.

I agree. Knowing what size nuts are in the rudder linkage isn't going to do me sh*t when they bust...

-mini

 

[ce750drvr]

Just to play devils advocate here... so if someone asked you how many hyd pumps were on each system... you'd say "who cares? It's either working or it's not!"

You could, but that would be a descent question. That is not the same type of systems question. He didn't ask how many fuel pumps are there, he asked tanks. Pumps I care about, not tanks.
The question will usually be how many hydraulic systems does the cit X have and how are they redundant with pumps and back up pumps, ptu's etc. But how many hydraulic "tanks" are there? Yeah, who cares.

You see, the X has what is called an EICAS. Which stands for Engine Indicating and Crew Alert System. It basically tells you when something is wrong among other things. If at Flight Safety, on your checkride, the examiner would ask you, "what is the max starting temp on the ITT?" Well you could give him the numerical value, but in actuallity, you can tell him the red triangle (the eicas system will put a red triangle at the max start temp). So really, who cares what that value is. If the red triangle doesn't show up, the airplane is grounded and we go to the hotel. This airplane has state of the art avionics. I don't know if I could fly a 172. Too complicated.

Patmack, I respect your opinion. But when the "poo" hits the fan, knowing or not knowing how many tanks an a/c has will not make a managable situation unmanagable. When his engine quits because of a fuel problem, do you think the number of tanks in a 172 could be a cause? If the instructor in this case wanted him to look it up just to get into the books, there are a thousand pieces of info that would have been more benficial to look up. JMO.

Good conversation though, you learn a lot just by asking and discussing. Keep it up.

 

[gear_guy]

I agree. Knowing what size nuts are in the rudder linkage isn't going to do me sh*t when they bust...

-mini

BTW- Just for future reference. The FAA says you should have a "working" knowledge of aircraft systems. I take this to mean that you should know how the systems work. IMO, this does not include trivial items. That is a waste of time. I am paying for my CFI to give me the information required to obtain the liscense.

The only memory items are:

1)Limitations

2)Emergency Procedures


Know those and you should pass any checkride.

 

[N4niner206]

I agree its stupid and the instructor was asking something trivial, perhaps to inflate his own ego. But on the same note, perhaps everyone posting on this thread is "beating their own meat" by demeaning the instructor. Granted its an arguably stupid question...

Cory

 

[ce750drvr]

It just sounded like you were saying that knowing the systems was pointless which, coming from an ATP I was like "wtf?" But along the same lines, ya knowing the number of "resevoirs" for the hyd systems is bascially just trivial (I refuse to say it's pointless though!)... luckily for me a situation that becomes unmanagable I can just pull a handle, which I got today on an EP sim with a trim runaway, which turned into a hyd leak somehow, which turned into a fire... screw this I'm getting out....

Knowing the systems is not pointless, in my eyes it is a must to have a working knowledge. Some have better memory than others, so learning EVERYTHING is impossible for most. That is why FSI wants you to learn annunciators, memory items and limitations. So, learning stuff like "how many tanks" just serves to take up memory of a one gigabyte brain like mine.

I understand where you are coming from though, it just boils down to technique and opinion of what you choose to learn and choose to teach. As long as the end result is the same and the PTS are flown within limits, teach away my friend.

Take care.

 

[rcsimpson]

Ok, how many systems on the 172S function by hydraulics? If any, name them.

I'm not being a wise ass, I too was asked this after being grilled for an hour about EVERYTHING on the 172S. Every antenna, hole, rivet, etc.

By the way, I got the answer right . . . .

 

[bobbysamd]

172 Fuel System

Two fuel tanks, one in each wing. And, a 172 has but two wings. I never flew an "S" model 172.

I never heard of a "collector" tank in a 172, after learning to fly in one, having umpteen hundreds of hours in them instructing and otherwise, and having given hypertechnical ERAU stage checks in them.

Asking questions about total and usable fuel is entirely legitimate.

Some Riddle stage check pilots asked about rivets, but I never did. A better question would be would you fly the airplane if it was missing rivets or Dzus fasteners.

 

[JediNein]

Yeah yeah yeah, the CFI is an idiot.

Next question after the student returns with the answer from the POH (and only certain models of 172s have the third tank, 182s and 206s do):

Is there a potential problem if we drain the fuel vent before the wing fuel tanks?

Answer: Yes. Water in the wing tanks can be drawn into the reservoir tank by sumping the vent before the wings. This could cause engine roughness in the runup, or, a complete engine failure on takeoff. Great fun.

Yep. That CFI is an absolute idiot for asking the first question and an even larger one for asking the second one. He asked a question that might, someday, be really important to one of his students. His current student owes the CFI a 6-pack.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[N4niner206]

One has to ask.... do those OTHER ERAU check pilots count the rivets before each flight during their preflight?? I agree totally with your point... the more valid question revolves around WHAT-IF one of those rivets was missing.

Some questions I agree can be beneficial in the learning environment. But when it comes to the number or rivets... thats about as trivial as they come! If a rivet was missing, you'd notice without having to count them. Doubt that number is even published in a POH or PIM.

My favorite question I ever heard from an instructor... back before my first flight in a Piper Arrow... was "What is this thing?" (pointing to the little knob on the right side of the rear fuselage, which was actually a hook-point to latch the strap which holds up the baggage compartment door). I remember when I did not know, my instructor jokingly claimed that it was the "valve stem" on which the pilot could blow on, to "pressurize" the cabin.

I'd be lying if I didn't 'recycle' that little joke on new students myself

 

[Lead Sled]

After racking my brain.. the only thing I can think of would be the shimmy dampener... but I don't know if that had hyd fluid in it..

Whats the answer?

Patmack...
Don't forget the brakes.

'Sled

 

[rcsimpson]

Bingo. Lead Sled nailed it . . . You smush on the pedal that smushes on the fluid that makes your calipers "calip" . . .

 

[ROB-x38]

Could you classify the nosewheel oleo as hydraulic or is it pneumatic?

 

[Goose Egg]

Geeze folks, do we all have an aversion to looking stuff up? Some of us are getting awfully defensive about actually having to know things about airplanes.

Now, the question itself was sort of ambiguous (which is not entirely a bad thing), but it should be viewed as an opportunity to learn. Incomplete knowledge can be hazardous.

-Goose

 

[bobbysamd]

172 nose strut

Could you classify the nosewheel oleo as hydraulic or is it pneumatic?

Bearing in mind what Goose wrote above, I'd say pneumatic. For one thing, you have to inflate it. Secondly, no fluids are being pushed through lines to make it operate.