Ok is my instructor messing with me?

[midlifeflyer]

He told me to find out on my own so i decided to ask here. How many fuel tanks are in the C172S?

"Go find out on your own" usually means, "Go look in the POH" not "Go ask a bunch of folks online who enjoy trashing questions."

That said, the 172S POH refers to "two vented integral fuel tanks" and a "reservoir tank."

So your CFI is probably asking one of those hyper-technical questions that teaches nothing. I wouldn't even call the reservoir a "fuel tank." Interestingly, neither does Cessna. Nowhere in the POH is the reservoir tank referred to as a "fuel tank."

 

[nosehair]

"Go find out on your own" usually means, "Go look in the POH" not "Go ask a bunch of folks online who enjoy trashing questions."

Thank you, Midlife! I wasn't going to respond to this asinine line until you came up with an actual teaching answer to this student. You're good!

So your CFI is probably asking one of those hyper-technical questions that teaches nothing.

The student/instructor relationship is an interacting relationship. Both parties are active. Activly seeking information. Both giving and recieving. The student must learn to seek the knowledge. Even when the instructor is asking "way-far-out-unrealistic" questions, the good student will seek the knowledge. There is more to learn than hard-matter-of-fact-facts. Ideas are worthy of consideration.

 

[Xavier]

Thank you, Midlife! I wasn't going to respond to this asinine line until you came up with an actual teaching answer to this student. You're good!



The student/instructor relationship is an interacting relationship. Both parties are active. Activly seeking information. Both giving and recieving. The student must learn to seek the knowledge. Even when the instructor is asking "way-far-out-unrealistic" questions, the good student will seek the knowledge. There is more to learn than hard-matter-of-fact-facts. Ideas are worthy of consideration.

Well if he is going to ask stupid questions like that, why not just ask how many wheels it has and tell him to go research it?

 

[nosehair]

Well if he is going to ask stupid questions like that, why not just ask how many wheels it has and tell him to go research it?

Of course, it could very well be that this individual instructor is just beating his own meat, but it could also be that a seemingly "stupid" question is contrived to produce a learning experience which is not readily discernable in it's outward appearance. Good, experienced instructors do that a lot. Or at least we used to.
Back in our military training days, when we came to the flight line every day, and on weather days we would sit and go beyound the "minimum knowledge" to get through, and delve into a lot of "what if" questions that would stretch the mind into thinking -- well, just thinking. We don't see much of that these days. No time for "thinking of the possibilities".

I tell my students that my job is to talk myself out of a job with them. In other words, I have to talk a lot at first (push this-pull that), then create scenarios where he/she learns to decide when to push this-pull that without me telling you when or how. One of the best ways of creating scenarios that you have to think your way out of is to ask what some may regard as a "stupid question".

When a young, inexperienced instructor does this, it may very well be his own inability to formulate a "learning experience", and instead creates an image of self-importance which distracts from the intended learning experience.

When a crusty old fart with nose and ear hairs crawling all over his face asks a stupid question, the response is more likely to be - "What's he mean by that?"
Of course, experience comes with a history, and the response is based on history, really. Old crusty instructors can be just as bad (or worse) than young instructors. In those cases we just roll our eyes and know to ignore him, but the old guys with good reputations are usually known for asking some "dumb questions" which wind up teaching us something.

Bottom line is - the attitude and tone level of the instructor asking the question. We really can't tell from just seeing the written word on this board.

 

[Lucky]

here's a simple but fun question. Ask your instructor how much a pound of fuel weighs!!

 

[gear_guy]

Just to play devils advocate here... so if someone asked you how many hyd pumps were on each system... you'd say "who cares? It's either working or it's not!"

Well actually.....I think one should only be concerned with what one has control over. You see, as a pilot, you are a manager. You manage things to allow the airplane to do it's job. So there is no need in knowing if there is a resevoir fuel tank. All you need to know is how to manage that fuel properly(which does'nt include knowing how many tanks there are in a 152). I could understand if he asked how many gallons it held, fuel flow, etc. You know....things you can control. As a CFI use some common sense. Don't waste your students time and memory on knowing things that won't save their life. Just my opinion. And I taught that way. I never got fired.

 

[minitour]

Well actually.....I think one should only be concerned with what one has control over.

I agree. Knowing what size nuts are in the rudder linkage isn't going to do me sh*t when they bust...

-mini

 

[ce750drvr]

Just to play devils advocate here... so if someone asked you how many hyd pumps were on each system... you'd say "who cares? It's either working or it's not!"

You could, but that would be a descent question. That is not the same type of systems question. He didn't ask how many fuel pumps are there, he asked tanks. Pumps I care about, not tanks.
The question will usually be how many hydraulic systems does the cit X have and how are they redundant with pumps and back up pumps, ptu's etc. But how many hydraulic "tanks" are there? Yeah, who cares.

You see, the X has what is called an EICAS. Which stands for Engine Indicating and Crew Alert System. It basically tells you when something is wrong among other things. If at Flight Safety, on your checkride, the examiner would ask you, "what is the max starting temp on the ITT?" Well you could give him the numerical value, but in actuallity, you can tell him the red triangle (the eicas system will put a red triangle at the max start temp). So really, who cares what that value is. If the red triangle doesn't show up, the airplane is grounded and we go to the hotel. This airplane has state of the art avionics. I don't know if I could fly a 172. Too complicated.

Patmack, I respect your opinion. But when the "poo" hits the fan, knowing or not knowing how many tanks an a/c has will not make a managable situation unmanagable. When his engine quits because of a fuel problem, do you think the number of tanks in a 172 could be a cause? If the instructor in this case wanted him to look it up just to get into the books, there are a thousand pieces of info that would have been more benficial to look up. JMO.

Good conversation though, you learn a lot just by asking and discussing. Keep it up.

 

[gear_guy]

I agree. Knowing what size nuts are in the rudder linkage isn't going to do me sh*t when they bust...

-mini

BTW- Just for future reference. The FAA says you should have a "working" knowledge of aircraft systems. I take this to mean that you should know how the systems work. IMO, this does not include trivial items. That is a waste of time. I am paying for my CFI to give me the information required to obtain the liscense.

The only memory items are:

1)Limitations

2)Emergency Procedures


Know those and you should pass any checkride.

 

[N4niner206]

I agree its stupid and the instructor was asking something trivial, perhaps to inflate his own ego. But on the same note, perhaps everyone posting on this thread is "beating their own meat" by demeaning the instructor. Granted its an arguably stupid question...

Cory