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Oil Prices Increase on Supply Concerns

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Rekks Inbound said:
PCL,

From your above statements, I gather that you really believe that oil is an infinite resource. Last i checked, oil is the remains of rotting, compressed dinosaurs, of which there were a finite number. Which of course means that oil will run out someday.

Now, some of the things stated in these articles may seem alarmist. But tell me, what is wrong with conservation? Reducing emissions? Cleaning up the enviroment? Finding alternative sources of fuel and energy sources? Oil WILL run out someday. And yes, 'Global Warming' is in fact a real thing, just because it snowed today outside your house or Rush says it ain't so doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

A very good friend of mine is a chemical engineer at BP, and has been in on corporate meetings there. What Jet is saying is quite true, maybe you should open your mind and listen i little bit on this subject.

Rekks
Of course oil isn't an infinite resource, but human ingenuity is infinitely capable of adapting to circumstances and solving problems. Right now, oil has not peaked, and therefore, the price is still reasonable enough to not motivate development of new energy technologies. As soon as oil really does start running out in the years ahead, there will be many alternatives developed. This is how the free market works, and it works very well. When the price of oil tops $150/bbl, you'll quickly see how capable the energy companies are of developing new energy technologies.

For right now, oil is the most economical source of energy. When that changes, then new technologies will replace it and the economies of scale will drive the price of that new energy source down. A simple example of this economic principal is easily evident in the hybrid vehicle. At current oil prices, hybrid vehicles do not make economic sense. As a result, only environmentalist wackos buy them. When the price of a gallon of gas tops $5.00, then it will make more sense to purchase a hybrid vehicle. The number of people buying hybrids will skyrocket, and economies of scale will allow the auto manufacturers to lower the price of a hybrid even more to broaden their market share. This is exactly how any new energy sources will be developed. The free market will take care of these problems, and besides a few small blips on the economic radar, the average person will feel no ill effects because of it. The peak-oil nuts would have you believe that people will just sit by and watch as oil prices continue to climb. That is not human nature. People will respond to rising prices by increasing investment in the study and development of new energy sources. Anyone with a decent understanding of economics would understand these principals. Of course, if you subscribe to the liberal democrat theories on economics, then I can understand why you are so confused by this.
 
Roscoe Bartlett, Republican Congressman from Maryland, is NOT an environmental wacko and he drives a Toyota Prius because he believes strongly in Peak OIL.

He knows the power that oil contains in every barrel and can comprehend that market forces are NOT GOING TO SAVE US.

We need to start working on this problem WELL BEFORE PEAK OIL occurs. NOW.

Below are links to speeches Roscoe Bartlett has given to congress and INFORMATION ABOUT HIS MEETING WITH GEORGE BUSH OUR PRESIDENT about peak oil. They are VERY EDUCATIONAL.

Roscoe Bartlett, Republican Congressman from Maryland gave this speech to Congress, broadcast on C-SPAN on July 19, 2005 about COMING OIL SUPPLY PROBLEMS(PEAK OIL).
Here is the transcript.:
www.xecu.net/thorn/PO/PO-July19-2005.html

April 19th Bartlett gave this speech to congress. This is a good speech to read and has visual aids,
www.bartlett.house.gov/SupportingFiles/documents/energyspeech.pdf

Roscoe Bartlett met with PRESIDENT George Walker Bush about Peak Oil on June 29th. So Bush, no doubt knows about the coming oil supply problems. Here is the press release:
www.bartlett.house.gov/latestnews.asp?ARTICLE2900=7308

Here is a quote from Roscoe:
“American needs a national energy policy and a program on a scale of the Manhattan Project that developed the atomic bomb during World War II to prevent or mitigate the consequences of global peak oil. To avoid a really bumpy ride, what we need to do is dramatically reduce our consumption. The cheapest oil is oil we don’t use. Second, we need to invest in greater energy efficiency. Third, we have to invest our limited resources of time and current energy sources to make rapid advances in the development of alternative, renewable sources of energy.”

Sorry that these speeches are so old. I haven't been keeping up with peak oil as much as I used to. The newer speeches he's given are similar and have pretty close to the same informaton. He's been educating congress and every congressman and senator no doubt thanks to him in the last year knows about this problem. Let's just hope they use their new knowledge, believe in it, and start acting on it.

The problem is real and we can't wait for the price to skyrocket BEFORE taking action. PCL you have too much trust in economics. This time market forces can not be relied on because the change from RISING SUPPLY TO THE PEAK AND DECLINING SUPPLY occurs SO QUICKLY.

Edited to add: ALTERNATIVES SIMPLY TAKE TOO LONG TO BRING TO MARKET AND WILL TAKE A DECADE OR MORE TO MAKE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE UNLESS STARTED NOW.

Jet
 
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jetflyer said:
PCL you have too much trust in economics.

Yep, I trust a proven system. We'll know in 40 years who was right. Like I said, I'm not worried. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go fill up my gas-guzzling Chrysler 300C. Don't lose too much sleep over it now. ;)
 
PCL_128,

According to www.peakoilclock.com the world will burn through the remaining ONE TRILLION BARRELS OF OIL in 30.5 years. THEN WE'LL BE OUT OF OIL.

Chevron even says at: http://www.willyoujoinus.com/advertising/print/
It took us 125 years to use the first trillion barrels of oil.
We'll use the next trillion in 30.
So in 40 years PCL, I hope you'll consider driving something other than your Chrysler 300C!!

Oh yea you'll also have to find something to replace all plastics which are made from oil. Asphault is also made from oil. Oh yea tires too. Also almost all of our fertilizers and pesticides are made from fossil fuels. I hope we can replace those too with enough poo. Etc. etc. etc. there are just too many products made from fossil fuels to list them all. We are a fossil fuel society.

Check out for yourself when we'll run out of oil. They have a countdown clock on the main page of the www.peakoilclock.com site.

They say they figure out how many years are left based on the estimated not proven reserves remaining worldwide compared with daily consumption, the number of years left of oil.

Plus the world increases oil usage by 2-3% per year.

We don't even know if there are a TRILLION BARRELS OF OIL LEFT. That is just an estimate that requires a lot of future discoveries of oil!

The world burns through 84 million barrels of oil per day!!
That's 30.66 BILLION BARRELS OF OIL PER YEAR!!
That's 1.288 Trillion Gallons of gasoline equivalent a year!!

Every Barrel has 42 gallons of gasoline/jet fuel/heating oil/kerosene/diesel etc.

This stuff is not going to be easy to replace.

We need to start now.

Jet
 
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Oh I forgot to add though that it doesn't matter when you run out of oil.

I hope from some of the articles I've posted that you've all learned that what matters is when you reach peak oil and begin to decline which will happen when about half the oil has been used up. We're very close now to this point.

When we reach peak oil in about 2010 the price will go up tremendously until supply=demand. As supply goes down, more demand will have to be destroyed by higher prices to make them equal.

The poor of the world will be the first affected because they will not be able to afford the $5.00/gallon gasoline. Then more won't be able to afford it when the price goes to $6.00 then $7.00 etc.

Jet
 
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PCL,

First of all, thanks for a non-emotional response. These days, on these boards, these discussions turn into a bash-fest way to often.

For many years (in fact, since before I was legal to vote), I prescribed to the conservative way of thinking, ie: lower taxes, less government and free-market economies. And even today, I still follow these principles.

I believe what Jet is trying to say is that although there is nothing wrong with free market economies, that the supply of oil on this planet is drying up at a rapid rate. Theoretically, the supply should last until most of us are retired from this industry. But what should be a priority for this country is an Apollo-style project to create reliable, renewable sources of energy, preferrably ones that have minimal enviromental impact. I believe what he is saying is why not get a head start? Free market economies don't react as fast as you would think. (by the way, minored in econ., freemarket in not the panacea you think it is, but neither is a more socialist model, either).

Republicans and Democrats alike react the same way when running the federal gov't.: they are reactionary. They need to take the lead on this issue, and maybe make it economically desirable to the oil companies to begin this research and development. Bush just gives lip service to it, Clinton put it on the back burner, Kerry said he had a plan (that no one could understand). The money wasted in Iraq could have paid for this several times over, and our guys wouldn't have had to spend all that time in the sand.

To sum up, this country needs to get it's priorities straight.

Rekks
 
Rekks Inbound said:
I believe what Jet is trying to say is that although there is nothing wrong with free market economies, that the supply of oil on this planet is drying up at a rapid rate. Theoretically, the supply should last until most of us are retired from this industry.

Rekks

Actually what I'm saying is BAD TIMES BEGIN and the price begins really going up when we run out of HALF THE OIL OR REACH "PEAK OIL".

Read this and you'll understand why:
http://www.yubanet.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/8/15426 which I consider to be the best description of the PEAK OIL problem.

WE HAVE A LOT OF OIL LEFT.
THAT'S NOT THE PROBLEM.

HITTING PEAK OIL (THE HALF WAY POINT) IS THE PROBLEM. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND.

Jet
 
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jet,

Seems like you know what you're talking about. Are you aware of any programs by jet engine manufacturers to make a "non-fossile fuel" propulsion system? Just curious.

linecheck
 
There is technology now to turn coal to oil.

We need to hurry and make these plants. Montana's governor wants to make one.

We can then turn the oil from the coal into jetfuel. This will be our immediate future. We have a lot of coal, but we have to make sure we use carbon sequestration to get the bad stuff out of the coal before we use it.

As far as a non-fossil fuel future. Well there is a group trying to make hydrogen aircraft. But they require HUGE tanks, like the same size as the cabin of the aircraft. I've seen pictures from people with ideas on what they'd look like and imagine an Airbus A360 where the entire upperdeck is the fuel tank!

Also almost all hydrogen is MADE from Natural gas. You might as well just use the natural gas! If the hydrogen is instead made from windmill electricity, solar, or NUCLEAR, then we're talking about good stuff. According to the laws of thermodynamics ENERGY IS LOST IN THE TRANSFORMATION no matter what.

EDITED TO ADD: Something else I've been following is zero point energy. There is a lot of hope they can tap into dark matter and power everything we need to power. This is a little sci-fi but there are people claiming they've already gotten it to work a little bit and that it will be almost infinite power. Let's hope!! We'll be able to fly our planes, drive our cars, heat our homes, etc. with it.

Look here for information on zero point energy:
http://www.zpenergy.com/

BOEING AND L. MARTIN ARE TRYING TO SEE IF THEY CAN GET THIS TO WORK.

There was another good website on zpe but I can't find it right now. I hope they can find out how to save the world :)

Conspiracy theorists say ZPE is what drives the government's test U.F.O.'s at Area 51. OK great now you all really think I'm a conspiracy theorist!

Ok I admit I listen to too much CoasttocoastAM with George Noory and Art Bell!

Well gotta run and can't post any more so see ya later,
Jet
 
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Here is a scary article I found from
http://www.financialsense.com/stormwatch/geo/analysis.htm:
.Weekly Column - 01.20.2006
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]Peak Oil and Civilization's Decline

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]by J. R. Nyquist[/FONT]

Oil is a limited resource and the world is using it up. In fact, oil production may be peaking now, with dire consequences to come. This is the thesis of James Kunstler, a noted critic of America’s suburban sprawl. His book is titled The Long Emergency. According to Kunstler, the world faces an unparalleled crisis. Food production, industrial efficiency, heating and transportation depend on oil production. And oil production is about to enter a period of irreversible decline. Kunstler views “the period ahead as one of generalized and chronic contraction.” Civilization conceived as economic progress cannot continue. Technology cannot save us because it will take decades to build new energy technologies for operating cars, trucks, aircraft and ships. “This is a much darker time than … the eve of World War II,” wrote Kunstler. “The current world population of 6.5 billion has no hope whatsoever of sustaining itself at current levels, and the fundamental conditions of life are about to force the issue."

After reading the first few chapters of Kunstler’s The Long Emergency I called a geologist friend who’d worked in the oil business. “So what do you think of peak oil?” I asked. His reply was somewhat optimistic: “Higher oil prices will spur new technology.” He then pointed to oil shale extraction technology. “ I’m not worried about running out of oil,” he said, “but I am worried about the geopolitics of oil.”
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Verdana]Curious about my friend’s reference to oil shale, I did some non-geological digging. According to the Energy Minerals Division of the Association of Petroleum Geologists, “Total world resources of oil shale are conservatively estimated at 2.6 trillion barrels.” It is useful to remember that, according to Kunstler (p. 49), “The earth’s total endowment of liquid petroleum was estimated to be roughly two trillion barrels.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Verdana]Oil shale is currently being exploited by China, Brazil and Estonia. Between 1980 and 1991, Unocal operated a large-scale experimental shale mining and retorting facility in the United States that produced 4.5 million barrels of oil. Shell (oil company) has developed a method for exploiting oil shale called “in situ conversion,” discussed in a Sept. 2, 2005 Rocky Mountain News column. According to James M. Taylor, managing editor of Environment & Climate News, “several major oil companies” are considering ventures “to extract oil from large oil shale deposits in Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming.” These deposits may contain more potential energy than the world’s proven crude oil reserves. The economics of oil shale is fairly straightforward. According to Terry O’Connor (a vice president at Shell): if the price of crude stays consistently above $30 per barrel then oil shale becomes profitable.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Verdana]There may be a problem with oil shale, however. The oil companies plan to wait another four years before they decide to extract oil from oil shale. The problem with peak oil is the lag-time between a devastating and unpredicted drop in oil production and bringing new technologies on line. Nobody knows if oil production will start to decline this year or next year or ten years from now. Since massive investment in new technologies must occur two decades in advance of peak oil (according to one government study), and peak oil may be occurring now, the world economy faces a grave potential crisis.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Verdana]In the Winter 2005/06 issue of The National Interest, former U.S. Energy Secretary James Schlesinger wrote dismissively of present difficulties in oil production. Taking an optimistic position, he does not believe that peak oil has arrived. “There is a mismatch between the types of crude available and what refiners are able to process,” he explained. This situation came about because excess refining capacity has existed for decades and there was, he wrote, “only a modest incentive to invest in additional capacity.” According to Schlesinger: “knowledgeable analysts believe that the world will, over the next several decades, reach a peak – or plateau – in conventional oil production.” In making this statement, Schlesinger sited Robert L. Hirsch’s “The Inevitable Peaking of World Oil Production.” But Hirsch’s Dec. 7, 2005, testimony before Congress does not endorse this claim. According to Hirsch, “It is possible that peaking may not occur for a decade or more, but it is also possible that peaking may be occurring right now.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Verdana]One government study indicates that a steady 4 percent decline on global crude production would cost millions of American jobs and send the price of oil above $160.00 per barrel. “Chinese officials,” according to Hirsch, “have forecast the peaking of world oil production around the year 2012.” An irreversible contraction of the world economy, as we know it, would occur from that point forward (until new technologies came on line). According to Kunstler, “It would be reasonable to wonder whether the United States will continue to exist as a unified entity, and what kind of strife the Long Emergency could ignite region by region,” Think of the windowless office buildings of Los Angeles and Phoenix without cheap energy to run air conditioners. Think of the commuters and the distances they drive, day after day, between home and work. “The American West, especially the Southwest, may suffer inordinately for several reasons,” wrote Kunstler. “Southern California, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, parts of Texas, Utah, and Colorado have been made habitable solely because of cheap energy.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Verdana]Political destabilization is indicated. Global war is likely. The rise of totalitarian regimes of the left and right may be expected.[/FONT]

UHHH, I say start getting the OIL SHALE OUT NOW!!! WHY WAIT 4 YEARS???

Geeze, Is the current $68.30/barrel of oil not high enough!?

Jet
 
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jetflyer said:
I hope you'll consider driving something other than your Chrysler 300C!!

Actually, I am. Well, kind of. I'm thinking of upgrading to the model with the even bigger engine! The 300C SRT8 with the 425hp engine. It gets a whole 14 mpg in the city and 17 on the highway! Gulp, gulp, gulp. Hear that baby roar!!! Now that's a car. Are you frightened yet? ;)
 
PCL_128 said:
Actually, I am. Well, kind of. I'm thinking of upgrading to the model with the even bigger engine! The 300C SRT8 with the 425hp engine. It gets a whole 14 mpg in the city and 17 on the highway! Gulp, gulp, gulp. Hear that baby roar!!! Now that's a car. Are you frightened yet? ;)

No, but you should be frightened!!!!....for buying a Daimler-Chrysler vehicle! SVT Cobra Mustang...enough said! Go Ford! ;) :beer:
 
People who buy a hybrid are wacko’s, huh? They’re people who are putting their money where their mouth is to help solve the problem, and reduce this country’s dependence on foreign oil. I’d suggest you follow their example, but a hybrid probably wouldn’t be able to pull your trailer home around.
 
furlough-boy said:
People who buy a hybrid are wacko’s, huh? They’re people who are putting their money where their mouth is to help solve the problem, and reduce this country’s dependence on foreign oil. I’d suggest you follow their example, but a hybrid probably wouldn’t be able to pull your trailer home around.

If the batteries on your hybrid last to about 100,000 miles, how much does it cost to replace them?
 
PCL_128 said:
Actually, I am. Well, kind of. I'm thinking of upgrading to the model with the even bigger engine! The 300C SRT8 with the 425hp engine. It gets a whole 14 mpg in the city and 17 on the highway! Gulp, gulp, gulp. Hear that baby roar!!! Now that's a car. Are you frightened yet? ;)

How do you afford this on PCL pay?
 
runwayjockey said:
How do you afford this on PCL pay?

I'm single and I make $70k a year. Pretty simple. PCL CA pay isn't that low. We're right in the middle of the pack. In fact, now that Comair pilots have whored themselves out, I make more than a CMR CA of the same seniority. It's just the PCL FO pay that is horrible.
 
I havd done some flying for a guy that is working with geologists and physicists to perfect the extraction of oil from sand. From what I understand, when this happens we can kiss Africa and the middle east goodby forever and let them eat scorpions and camel dung. There is supposedly enough of this stuff to last a very long time and ALOT of people are working on the solution.

Necessity is the Mother of invention. Always has been, always will be.
 
blzr said:
I havd done some flying for a guy that is working with geologists and physicists to perfect the extraction of oil from sand. From what I understand, when this happens we can kiss Africa and the middle east goodby forever and let them eat scorpions and camel dung. There is supposedly enough of this stuff to last a very long time and ALOT of people are working on the solution.

Necessity is the Mother of invention. Always has been, always will be.
All we have to do is figure out a way to restock up on fossils.
 
not econ...

furlough-boy said:
People who buy a hybrid are wacko’s, huh? They’re people who are putting their money where their mouth is to help solve the problem, and reduce this country’s dependence on foreign oil. I’d suggest you follow their example, but a hybrid probably wouldn’t be able to pull your trailer home around.


Fact -- Gas would have to be $4.00+ for these cars to pay off...
 
The Hunt for Zero Point by Nick Cook is a very interesting read. He was/is the Aviation Editor for Jane's.
 
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA] Sustainable oil?
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA] May 25, 2004
By Chris Bennett
� 2004 WorldNetDaily.com


[/FONT]
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[/FONT][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]About 80 miles off of the coast of Louisiana lies a mostly submerged mountain, the top of which is known as Eugene Island. The portion underwater is an eerie-looking, sloping tower jutting up from the depths of the Gulf of Mexico, with deep fissures and perpendicular faults which spontaneously spew natural gas. A significant reservoir of crude oil was discovered nearby in the late '60s, and by 1970, a platform named Eugene 330 was busily producing about 15,000 barrels a day of high-quality crude oil. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]By the late '80s, the platform's production had slipped to less than 4,000 barrels per day, and was considered pumped out. Done. Suddenly, in 1990, production soared back to 15,000 barrels a day, and the reserves which had been estimated at 60 million barrels in the '70s, were recalculated at 400 million barrels. Interestingly, the measured geological age of the new oil was quantifiably different than the oil pumped in the '70s. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]Analysis of seismic recordings revealed the presence of a "deep fault" at the base of the Eugene Island reservoir which was gushing up a river of oil from some deeper and previously unknown source. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]Similar results were seen at other Gulf of Mexico oil wells. Similar results were found in the Cook Inlet oil fields in Alaska. Similar results were found in oil fields in Uzbekistan. Similarly in the Middle East, where oil exploration and extraction have been underway for at least the last 20 years, known reserves have doubled. Currently there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 680 billion barrels of Middle East reserve oil. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]Creating that much oil would take a big pile of dead dinosaurs and fermenting prehistoric plants. Could there be another source for crude oil? [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]An intriguing theory now permeating oil company research staffs suggests that crude oil may actually be a natural inorganic product, not a stepchild of unfathomable time and organic degradation. The theory suggests there may be huge, yet-to-be-discovered reserves of oil at depths that dwarf current world estimates. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]The theory is simple: Crude oil forms as a natural inorganic process which occurs between the mantle and the crust, somewhere between 5 and 20 miles deep. The proposed mechanism is as follows: [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
  • [FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]
    [*]Methane (CH4) is a common molecule found in quantity throughout our solar system – huge concentrations exist at great depth in the Earth.
    [*]At the mantle-crust interface, roughly 20,000 feet beneath the surface, rapidly rising streams of compressed methane-based gasses hit pockets of high temperature causing the condensation of heavier hydrocarbons. The product of this condensation is commonly known as crude oil.
    [*]Some compressed methane-based gasses migrate into pockets and reservoirs we extract as "natural gas."
    [*]In the geologically "cooler," more tectonically stable regions around the globe, the crude oil pools into reservoirs.
    [*]In the "hotter," more volcanic and tectonically active areas, the oil and natural gas continue to condense and eventually to oxidize, producing carbon dioxide and steam, which exits from active volcanoes.
    [*]Periodically, depending on variations of geology and Earth movement, oil seeps to the surface in quantity, creating the vast oil-sand deposits of Canada and Venezuela, or the continual seeps found beneath the Gulf of Mexico and Uzbekistan.
    [*]Periodically, depending on variations of geology, the vast, deep pools of oil break free and replenish existing known reserves of oil.
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA](cont.)
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[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA](cont.)

There are a number of observations across the oil-producing regions of the globe that support this theory, and the list of proponents begins with Mendelev (who created the periodic table of elements) and includes Dr.Thomas Gold (founding director of Cornell University Center for Radiophysics and Space Research) and Dr. J.F. Kenney of Gas Resources Corporations, Houston, Texas.
[/FONT]
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[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]In his 1999 book, "The Deep Hot Biosphere," Dr. Gold presents compelling evidence for inorganic oil formation. He notes that geologic structures where oil is found all correspond to "deep earth" formations, not the haphazard depositions we find with sedimentary rock, associated fossils or even current surface life. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]He also notes that oil extracted from varying depths from the same oil field have the same chemistry – oil chemistry does not vary as fossils vary with increasing depth. Also interesting is the fact that oil is found in huge quantities among geographic formations where assays of prehistoric life are not sufficient to produce the existing reservoirs of oil. Where then did it come from? [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]Another interesting fact is that every oil field throughout the world has outgassing helium. Helium is so often present in oil fields that helium detectors are used as oil-prospecting tools. Helium is an inert gas known to be a fundamental product of the radiological decay or uranium and thorium, identified in quantity at great depths below the surface of the earth, 200 and more miles below. It is not found in meaningful quantities in areas that are not producing methane, oil or natural gas. It is not a member of the dozen or so common elements associated with life. It is found throughout the solar system as a thoroughly inorganic product. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]Even more intriguing is evidence that several oil reservoirs around the globe are refilling themselves, such as the Eugene Island reservoir – not from the sides, as would be expected from cocurrent organic reservoirs, but from the bottom up. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]Dr. Gold strongly believes that oil is a "renewable, primordial soup continually manufactured by the Earth under ultrahot conditions and tremendous pressures. As this substance migrates toward the surface, it is attached by bacteria, making it appear to have an organic origin dating back to the dinosaurs." [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]Smaller oil companies and innovative teams are using this theory to justify deep oil drilling in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico, among other locations, with some success. Dr. Kenney is on record predicting that parts of Siberia contain a deep reservoir of oil equal to or exceeding that already discovered in the Middle East. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]Could this be true? [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]In August 2002, in the "Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (US)," Dr. Kenney published a paper, which had a partial title of "The genesis of hydrocarbons and the origin of petroleum." Dr. Kenney and three Russian coauthors conclude: [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]The Hydrogen-Carbon system does not spontaneously evolve hydrocarbons at pressures less than 30 Kbar, even in the most favorable environment. The H-C system evolves hydrocarbons under pressures found in the mantle of the Earth and at temperatures consistent with that environment. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]He was quoted as stating that "competent physicists, chemists, chemical engineers and men knowledgeable of thermodynamics have known that natural petroleum does not evolve from biological materials since the last quarter of the 19th century." [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]Deeply entrenched in our culture is the belief that at some point in the relatively near future we will see the last working pump on the last functioning oil well screech and rattle, and that will be that. The end of the Age of Oil. And unless we find another source of cheap energy, the world will rapidly become a much darker and dangerous place. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]If Dr. Gold and Dr. Kenney are correct, this "the end of the world as we know it" scenario simply won't happen. Think about it ... while not inexhaustible, deep Earth reserves of inorganic crude oil and commercially feasible extraction would provide the world with generations of low-cost fuel. Dr. Gold has been quoted saying that current worldwide reserves of crude oil could be off by a factor of over 100. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA][FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA]A Hedberg Conference, sponsored by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, was scheduled to discuss and publicly debate this issue. Papers were solicited from interested academics and professionals. The conference was scheduled to begin June 9, 2003, but was canceled at the last minute. A new date has yet to be set. http://www.prouty.org/oil.html[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
 



...


The impact on the planet of the conclusions of this debate

Much research remains to be done on "alternative" theories of the how much hydrocarbons are left in the world- unfortunately- those entities most able to do this research- the western multinational oil conglomerates- have the least interest in arriving at any conclusion other than those that are part of the "Peak Oil" stream of thought. Today the mainstream press has accepted as a given that the world has only a finite amount of oil and natural gas- and thus any decision taken on how to deal with the world's future needs are based on these conclusions. If they are erroneous- then the world is about to embark on a plan to provide for its energy needs for the coming century based on a false notion.
Research geochemist Michael Lewan of the U.S.Geological Survey in Denver, is one of the most knowledgeable advocates of the opposing theory, that petroleum is a "fossil fuel". Yet even Lewan admits:
"I don't think anybody has ever doubted that there is an inorganic source of hydrocarbons. The key question is, 'Do they exist in commercial quantities?'"
We might never know the answer to that question because both sides of this debate are not being heard by the general public. If the Russians have accepted the theory that hydrocarbons are renewable- and over time they will become the leading exporters of oil and gas worldwide- this fact alone requires these alternative theories of how fossil fuels are created- is required.
It behooves western governments to begin taking these alternative theories seriously- and design future energy policies based on possibility that they are correct. Whatever strategies for meeting the world's ferocious appetite for energy are devised today- will impact the planet for decades to come.
In this issue- we simply can't afford to be wrong.
Joel Bainerman


http://321energy.com/editorials/bainerman/bainerman083105.html
 
jetflyer said:
The scary thing is Iranian supply concerns are just the beginning. In the near future, around 2010, oil production for the world is supposed to reach a maximum and begin declining irreversibly and every barrel will cost more to extract as well. It's called "peak oil" predicted by Shell geologist M. King Hubbert in the 1950's and is being discussed in congress right now, by Congressman like Republican Roscoe Bartlett from Maryland.

Here is an article talking about problems coming with oil from
http://www.itp.net/business/features/details.php?id=3639&category=


I am one that thinks we are in the beginning stages of many showdowns for oil resources with other nations, possibly leading to WWIII. Iraq, Iran, and Venezuela(U.S.'s third largest oil supplier) are just the beginning. It's when China and the U.S. get into a conflict that things will get interesting. The great game of trying to acquire the world's last remaining resources for ourselves has just begun.

Oh and there's a reason that China is building its military faster than anyone has since WWII. They plan on having to use it soon.

Jet

I think that China's rapid building of the military has more to do with Japan and Taiwan than it does with fighting for oil right now. Yes, Taiwan and Japan are smaller countries. But an attack on any of those countries would mean war with the US. Do you remember last year when the Chinese Gov said that it had no intentions to attack taiwan but then a month later had the leglislation change the law to say that they could attack Taiwan at will? Then the recent up stirs of insisting that Japan apologize again for their war crimes. I kind of dont get it though. First off... WW2 was how many years ago? The people at the time had already apologized. The people in the current Gov, lets say are 30-60 years old. WW2 had 0 to do with them. Absolutely nothing. Most of them weren't born yet or were little kids at the time. Secondly... China had better be careful. At the time, if it weren't for the US entering WW2, they'd still all be speaking Japanese right now and having their country occupied by Japan. Third, almost three quarters of their economy is currently fueld by producing and exporting goods into the US.

I think it would be foolish of them to have to use their military against us. But again... China does a lot of things that doesn't make sense and there's a lot of stuff that goes on that we dont know about. I actually know someone that works for a state run company. Chinese people can't keep secrets that easy either. So i do hear rumors about a lot of stuff they are planning on doing. Them using miltary force somewhere in the future is imminent.
 
I have not said anything for awhile so I will pipe up here.......China and the United States will come together in the next 20 years to put the oil problem to bed once and for all...combined, this force of military splendor will dominate the East and cause that part of the world to come to it knees. Now how about that Apple.....Focus out.
 
Speaking of Apples,,,,,,I have not received any thanks concerning my stock pick of AAPL doubling by tax day......any one that remembers that please take your winnings and sit on the sideline for the next month....Mkt too shaky right now with the curve and the Fed
 

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