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Of airplanes running off the runway....

  • Thread starter Thread starter cynic
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Amazing how uninformed, ignorant flamebait from Cynic turns into a theological argument about the pay at regional airlines.

NEWS FLASH: IT SUCKS!

The EMB taco jet has a problem with the nosewheel steering as was pointed out earlier. That's why CHQ and XJT put their birds off the runway - it had very little if anything to do with the crew.

You know what they call the guy who finishes last in his class at medical school? DOCTOR. Now can we quit this stupid, baseless flamebait conversation please?
 
Which part of my post was ignorant and uninformed.

The part that says the pay is typically under 25K a year for pilots?

Or was it the part that explained you get what you pay for?
 
Most people that apply for the regionals know what they are getting into pay wise. They love thier flying jobs and are proffessionals about it. To all the people out there who interview for jobs at regionals and don't take them because of pay need to get a life. You are ruining it for the many flight instructors like myself who would love to be there.
 
cynic said:
Do you think there is ANY relationship between the pay at the regional airlines and the quality of the individuals working there.

That is, do you get what you pay for with people, just like things.

I consider myself a bright guy, a super genius really. But seriously.... I turned down a regional job and a local job as a pilot due to the pay. I was fortunate enough to have other skills and other options.

So in short, do you get more dumba$$e$ when the satarting pay is less than 25K a year?

My theory is yes. The quality of people flying for the airlines is dropping, but at the same time, the planes are getting easier to fly so the accident rate stays about the same over time.
So I noticed you have like 2000 hours are you working as a CFI with a "Golden Parachute" because you know they make millions. Or are you one of the Dumba## idiots who weekend fly in airplanes and weather they don't belong in (which oh by the way drives the accident rate in GA up)? Also these "other skills" you mention do they involve a pair of knee pads that you bought at Home Depot?

 
cynic said:
Which part of my post was ignorant and uninformed.

The part that says the pay is typically under 25K a year for pilots?

Or was it the part that explained you get what you pay for?
The uninformed part was not knowing the story behind the off-runway events. The only off-runway incidents recently were the CHQ and XJT Embraers that went off the runway due to a faulty nosewheel steering component that has been well documented. You somehow make a connection that these events occurred because they (regional pilots) are paid lower than mainline pilots. This assumption is the ignorant part.

You mock pilots wanting a low-paying regional job because you have "other skills and other options". Yay for you. I don't disagree with you that regional pay sucks, but your assumption that low pay is the cause of accidents is ABSURD. Please continue instructing and working your "day job", and remember, a good pilot never quits learning...
 
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The quality of pilots is diminishing due to a lowering of standards.

Fast movement in the field, along with people more motivated to advance than actually develop the skills needed are leading causes.

By and large, we are becoming an industry of swith-flippers posing as professional airmen.

A large percentage of the pilots I know are far more concerned about their union contract and getting what they "deserve" than they are about their professional capabilities. Perhaps we are getting what we deserve? I think just maybe.
 
cynic said:
Which part of my post was ignorant and uninformed.
The whole thing.

I could give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you are really interested in the answer here, and not just some half-baked idiot stirring the pot, but my theory is that you're simply rationalizing your own descision not work at the regionals by carrying around some "holier than thou" chip on your shoulder over the pay issue.

My basic response to would be actually engage your brain and think a little. Your theory assumes that the majority of pilots with any desirable traits take one look at the first year pay and walk away on some lofty principle. ("I'm worth more than that, so I'll give up something I love to make a political statement while I work in some office.") Get real! Do you really believe this is occuring regularly? So, if the "quality" pilots would never stoop to work at low pay, then where are they working? Do you have ANY idea what's occuring in the industry right now and how few jobs there are?

I'm not going to bother to address how safety/accidents work, because I think you don't really care, and have already made up and closed you mind. I will say this though, Uncertainty over their jobs and future does tend to cause an increase in pilot deviations at a specific carrier. For instance, during the Piedmont/USAir merger, they went through the roof and then returned to normal. I would imagine you'd see some similiar things occuring now at one or two of the legacy carriers. Pilot deviations however, do not equal more accidents. If you really want to address how training and organizational cultures may contribute, (not cause, super genius) accident or incidents, I'd be happy to delve into that. (There is some really interesting stuff out there you probably havn't heard in CRM class...)

My guess though, is you're simply dumping on others to make yourself feel good about your descision not to come play with us. Truthfully, we're much better off without you, so my sincerest gratitude and thanks!

Blue Skies!
 
100LL. I think you hit the nail right on the head with the switch flipper comment. If some of the guys that complain about the company/union constantly put half the effort into their flying skills that they put into complaining, everybody would be a lot better off.
 
100LL... Again! said:
The quality of pilots is diminishing due to a lowering of standards.

Fast movement in the field, along with people more motivated to advance than actually develop the skills needed are leading causes.

By and large, we are becoming an industry of swith-flippers posing as professional airmen.

A large percentage of the pilots I know are far more concerned about their union contract and getting what they "deserve" than they are about their professional capabilities. Perhaps we are getting what we deserve? I think just maybe.
If it is so easy to be an airline pilot and the standards are so low, then I invite you to apply for a pilot position. I will be happy to give you a sim evaluation and would be even happier to put your skills against any pilot in my company. Care to try, poser?
 
I am currently on furlough from my second 121 carrier. I was an instructor at my first airline.

I would pass your evaluation, as I have passed all the others. Funny thing about simulator instructors, we usually know most of the tricks, sadists that we are.

Anyway, I am right on this issue. I spent enough time in the sim to know.

It is relatively easy to be an airline pilot. The number of marginally skilled people I saw pass training was staggering. I did not work at a bottom feeder airline either.

Another thing: I wish pilots would stop comparing themselves to doctors. most of the pilots I know have nowhere near enough dedication to make it through med school. Most of us are spoiled, lazy, and have an inflated sense of our own worth in the field of aviation.

Go home, junior.

And for Pete's sake, please try to keep that big shiny plane on the runway. Okay??!!
Our poor profession can't take any more.
 
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BoilerUP said:
You mock pilots wanting a low-paying regional job because you have "other skills and other options". Yay for you. I don't disagree with you that regional pay sucks, but your assumption that low pay is the cause of accidents is ABSURD. Please continue instructing and working your "day job", and remember, a good pilot never quits learning...
I don't really disagree with you, but, I do think we lose a significant level of safety when pilots show up for work stressed and tired from working several jobs and dealing with financial hardship. Lower paid pilots don't have a monopoly on stress though. Those higher up on the food chain can still show up for work tired and stressed after 3 days of "fun" at Disney World with the family or a "conference" in Cancun. It's more about personal outlook than the situation itself.
 
Cynic has a point.....we all know that well paid, pampered, mainline pilots have N-E-V-E-R made a mistake or had an incident. So that's it, high pay= top skill.


It's all so clear to me now.
 
100LL... "It is relatively easy to be an airline pilot. The number of marginally skilled people I saw pass training was staggering. I did not work at a bottom feeder airline either."

I guess we can't really call you a liar since you apparently have proved your own theory to be true.


100LL...."The quality of pilots is diminishing due to a lowering of standards.

Fast movement in the field, along with people more motivated to advance than actually develop the skills needed are leading causes."

How have the standards lowered? And as for "fast movement in the field," you're kidding, right? Please show me this "fast movement." How can someone on furlough even claim this?

-minrest
 
For anyone out there under the impression that regional airline salaries have INCREASED throughout the years...please put the Kool-Aid down. At my current company and my past company, our pay did not keep up with inflation. At my current company, the FO's in the 146 made MORE than CRJ captains do now just a short 5 years ago. I make $26/hour less than what 146 FOs made back in the '90s (The captain I just flew with used to make $65/hour in the right seat of the 146). Even before the TA it was $20/hour. We at AWAC are making the same amount of money as the pilots who flew here in the '80s made. When United got their "industry leading" contract a few years ago...all it did was bring them back in line with what they should have been at (based on cost of living increases). Our purchasing power is steadily DECLINING (based on real dollars).
 
I betcha that more 152s and 172s run off
runways per 100K flight hours than even
those POS erjs that were built by people
that had to come down out of the frigging
trees and learn to wear shoes to work
before they drove their first rivet!

How many CRJ's, ARJ's and Junkstreams
have run off the runway lately?

Ya going to blame low pay on the crash
of the Gulfstream a few years ago in
Colorado? Betcha that Captain was making
what the whole crew of a erj makes...including
the gallywench!
How bout the 73 that ended up at the gas
station in burbank?

supergenius my a$$

Geeze!
 
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