NWA Update

[320AV8R]

320-
Curious, but how many Red Book guys are in agreement with this?

CB-

The handfull of RB pilots I know support it. What's more important, however, is the position of the MEC. All the information, (via ALPA e-mails, ALPA meetings, direct conversation with Reps, etc...), points in this direction also.

320AV8R

 

[TinGoose1]

320-

I don't care either way, I'm not in the red tail family. I do however care that even by discussing creating a NEWCO your setting a dangerous example for other carriers to follow. I believe you said in the same paragraph that you didn't want to start another feeder, but then went on to say that only NWA pilots would fly for NEWCO. How is this not creating another feeder? Are the NWA pilots who fly for NEWCO going to make NWA wages or are they going to fly for regional pay rates? If your flying for regional pay rates, your a regional airline. The line in the sand should be that those airplanes be flown on the NWA property, not the NEWCO property. If your drawing the line in the sand for only NWA pilots fly for NEWCO, you've lost the fight already. NWA pilots should only fly NWA airplanes. If NWA wants to buy 70/90/110 seat aircraft, then NWA pilot's should fly them within the NWA system. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just think you guys are fighting the wrong battle.

 

[AnimalTale]

320-
Are the NWA pilots who fly for NEWCO going to make NWA wages or are they going to fly for regional pay rates? If your flying for regional pay rates, your a regional airline.

Tin,

Have you seen the NWA PAYRATES? IF you take in to consideration the ratio of seats to pay, The NWA payrates are close to regional pay. NWA mngmt would be very ignorant to start up a regional carrier, NEWCO, especially with the new work rules coming to effect at NWA.

The only reason I can think of would be to dissolve NWA into a "virtual" airline. Sell all of its parts. Newco to MEsaba or PCL. Intl flying to American etc..


Cya

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Guys XJ must be NewCo look at what their proposed pay rates are going to be. 100 seat rates at 13% less than 50 seat rates. DC-9 captains will soon be making 40K a year after they park those things. They will make lower than Mesa captains, what an insult.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

320-

I don't care either way, I'm not in the red tail family. I do however care that even by discussing creating a NEWCO your setting a dangerous example for other carriers to follow. I believe you said in the same paragraph that you didn't want to start another feeder, but then went on to say that only NWA pilots would fly for NEWCO. How is this not creating another feeder? Are the NWA pilots who fly for NEWCO going to make NWA wages or are they going to fly for regional pay rates? If your flying for regional pay rates, your a regional airline. The line in the sand should be that those airplanes be flown on the NWA property, not the NEWCO property. If your drawing the line in the sand for only NWA pilots fly for NEWCO, you've lost the fight already. NWA pilots should only fly NWA airplanes. If NWA wants to buy 70/90/110 seat aircraft, then NWA pilot's should fly them within the NWA system. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just think you guys are fighting the wrong battle.

Yes we have lost the wage battle already. This is about an outsourcing battle right now, we can only fight that battle right now. We will start fighting for pay again after NWA comes out of Bankruptcy. Right now we need a unified list so we can fight that wage battle. If we have 4 pilot groups on the property with all different contracts and no scope, the flying will go to the one with the worst contract. XJ is soon to have possibly the worst contract in the industry why not give them the 747 flying at 50 seat rates. We CAN NOT fight a wage battle effectively without a scope contract.

 

[whymeworry?]

It's hard to have sympathy for NW, UAL and U pilots since they themselves allowed their management to steamroll it's wishes upon the pilots without much of a fight.

I know this statement makes me flamebait (I could care less) but if you think about it this is the same stance that the 3 aforementioned carriers took with everyone else during the 80s and 90s, i.e., they expected all the other carriers to uphold the profession and fight for good contracts.... and they were right. Then when their turn came they folded like a wet noodle.

By contrast, AQ pilots show up everyday in court and drew a line in the sand (no pun intended). They held their ground, they picketed, they put up a helluva fight. And they got a pretty good deal considering what they were facing, an 1113c contract throwout.

DAL pilots are equally putting up a fight. They too are showing up in court everyday and demonstrating the the BK judge that they will not be railroaded into a lose-lose deal. How much easier it would have been for them if their ALPA bretheran had a backbone when their time came?

I wish the NW pilots well. And I mean no harm in my comments, just calling it as I see it. I know it's hard to put up a fight when you're busy with kids, life and your career. But what did you expect? Management intimidated y'all and you put up no fight. It's not like the writing wasn't on the wall. NW's precarious situation has been evident for more than a year and it's mgmt team refused to follow the industry with fare increases for most of the past 5 years. Hence, it's MEC should have been preparing for a fight long ago. Instead, a paycut proposal comes out and the pilots all vote it in for fear of "rocking the boat". Good luck with the rest of your negotiations. Mgmt won the last round, y'all will have to FIGHT to gain any headway in the next one. Put up no fight and the ned result is obvious.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I wish the NW pilots well. And I mean no harm in my comments, just calling it as I see it. I know it's hard to put up a fight when you're busy with kids, life and your career. But what did you expect? Management intimidated y'all and you put up no fight. It's not like the writing wasn't on the wall. NW's precarious situation has been evident for more than a year and it's mgmt team refused to follow the industry with fare increases for most of the past 5 years. Hence, it's MEC should have been preparing for a fight long ago. Instead, a paycut proposal comes out and the pilots all vote it in for fear of "rocking the boat". Good luck with the rest of your negotiations. Mgmt won the last round, y'all will have to FIGHT to gain any headway in the next one. Put up no fight and the ned result is obvious.

This is a fight about scope. Those paycuts were taken to preserve scope. We can only fight one battle at a time. Once there is a viable scope solution then we can worry about pay. I'm just afraid that our pilots will take another paycut to extend the scope agreement. This battle needs to be fought right now this very moment. I say one seniority list is the best option, maybe the only option. With that kind of unity we will have the power to get our pay back.

 

[PCL_128]

I say one seniority list is the best option, maybe the only option. With that kind of unity we will have the power to get our pay back.

Smart man. The only problem is that you'll have to give up absolutely absurd amounts of pay and QOL to achieve a single list. Are you willing to do it? It could take two decades to make up what you'll lose to accomplish it.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Smart man. The only problem is that you'll have to give up absolutely absurd amounts of pay and QOL to achieve a single list. Are you willing to do it? It could take two decades to make up what you'll lose to accomplish it.

It's already gone.

 

[whymeworry?]

This is a fight about scope. Those paycuts were taken to preserve scope. We can only fight one battle at a time. Once there is a viable scope solution then we can worry about pay. I'm just afraid that our pilots will take another paycut to extend the scope agreement. This battle needs to be fought right now this very moment. I say one seniority list is the best option, maybe the only option. With that kind of unity we will have the power to get our pay back.

I disagree... DAL is fighting scope AND pay at the same time. AQ fought scope AND pay at the same time. This is about standing up to crooked mgmt and showing that pilots cannot be taken for granted. You mgmt is financially insulated from any problems that arise out of the BK process. You ought to expose that detail in open court and in the press... much the way the DAL pilots expose their mgmt. Further, the paycut would have only been taken "to preserve scope" if the NW pilots received an iron-clad agreement BEFORE taking the cuts, then perhaps I would refrain from judgement. But y'all took the paycuts in hope of a scope agreement with mgmt. In the eyes of most that's giving up any leverage you ever had before you even show up to the bargining table. Now you expect mgmt to play ball because the pilots show a "good faith" effort? Are you kidding me? Have you guys bothered to size up your adversary??? They were selling their insider shares 3-6 months before the BK filing, they set up CH 11 proof pension and parachute schemes BEFORE they filed, they hired the same legal guns that propelled Lorenzo to his ferocious union-busting status. Talk about burying your head in the sand.

Again, good luck. I wish you all well, really. And I hope you all prove me to be absolutely wrong.