With a DOH scenario coupled with fences, your 2007 wide-eyed B767 First Officer will maintain close to his ratio and without a doubt maintain his his position flying the B767.
Problems that I have with ratios are that DALPA ratios are way out out of whack. Using the Delta proposal most of us at NWA move down several percentage points. In other words, if I have 20% below me at NWA, I will now have 15% below me at the new Delta. So if you guys want to go with the fantasyland ratio scenario, at least do it fairly.
Also ratios don't account for career expectations. In my case I would have retired as a B747-400 Captain without a merger. Ok we merged. Things change but I should still come close to my career expectations. When you give away 1500 numbers your career expectations diminish greatly.
To be honest, I thought it was a cool merger in the beginning until I saw DAL's SLI proposal with DAL pilots defending an unreasonable solution. Now I hope for ten year fences, more the status quo and protections for all of our NWA flying, especially the A330 and B747-400.
Please look at history. Look at my above post and read about which airlines tried and failed to get DOH, with or without a fence. It just won't work, and your fence is hillarious (10 years) because it comes down just as our guys start to retire en mass. Come on, everyone can see it.
With our Dalpa proposal, we DL pilots move up 2%, and that would mean you would move down 2% (put 400 on the bottom equates to that). The reason for that was outlined in our testimony, but simply put you were overstaffed up to the merger, and you would have furloughed pilots, had it not been for our manning formula that actually requires you to have more pilots. Had we not merged, you would have furloughed, and the lower fuel now is buffered by the weakening economy. Also, had we not merged, the pilots that recently retired may not have, thanks to the same NWA retirement medical premiums remaining in place. Here is the snipit from our closing statements:
Regarding the existence of excess NWA pilot positions that have been and
will be created by the disposition of NWA’s DC-9s, B-757s, A319s, and B747-200
freighters – and furloughs that would have resulted at a standalone NWA:
• Robert Mann presented an analysis demonstrating that the known aircraft
dispositions at NWA would result in a minimum of 400 excess pilot
positions and a maximum of 576 excess pilot positions by the end of 2009.
And, depending on the pace DC-9 and B-747-200 freighter dispositions
after 2008, a pool of excess NWA pilots continuing through 2011 that
would range from about 100 on the low end up to 500 on the high end.
T.439-469; DX-35(corrected) at 3-4.
• Captain Rich Harwood presented an analysis demonstrating how NWA’s
pilot requirements for 2009 would decline on a standalone basis versus
2008 from 4300 to 3784 (a loss of 516). T. 2727-33; DRX-23 at 21-29.
• An email from NWA’s Robert Brodin, SVP Labor Relations, dated June
19, 2008, demonstrated that NWA management notified the NWA MEC
that there would be a furlough of between 250 and 300 NWA pilots due to
its fleet cutbacks in May 2008. DRX-26. As explained in our Pre-
Hearing Statement at 19-20, and in the testimony of Captain Tim
O’Malley, T.530, these furloughs were forestalled by NWA’s negotiation
of the “Layoff Protection Package” with the NWA Committee
In the end, we are bringing more widebodies and higher paying positions to the party, while you are bringing lower paying DC9 jobs. You say you should have been a 744 captain upon retirement. Since the 777 now pays the same, I bet you will either fly the 744 or the 777, and I have heard the 777-300ER will eventually replace the 744s anyway, just like most Asian airlines are doing now. They are just more fuel efficient, and can carry the same cargo. JAL and ANA are doing it, along with Cathay and EVA. Even our partners KLM and Air France are heading that way, with the 777-300s. Air France is even flying 777Fs now.
As far as fences go, I think we are pushing for at least 3 year fences, primarily to deal with greenbooks. Here it is in the closing statement:
Another significant issue in the case that should be addressed by the Panel is the
Red Book/Green Book hangover from the Roberts Award integrating the Northwest and
Republic seniority lists. In our Pre-Hearing Statement, we described how several
hundred Green Book pilots remain marooned in lower paying equipment than they could
hold if only afforded the opportunity to exercise fully their seniority, because junior Red
Book pilots maintain their stranglehold on the higher paying equipment due to the legacy
of the Roberts Award. See Pre-Hearing Statement at 25-27. During the hearings,
Captain Harwood showed that there remains a large group of Green Book pilots who are
making substantially less than the Red Book pilots grouped below them. T.624-47; DX-
38. Later in the hearing, Captain Greg Averill acknowledged that there are, by his
estimate, some 126 Green Book pilots who remain disadvantaged at this time.12 T.2369.
Whatever the exact scope of the problem, it would be inequitable for it to be resolved at
the expense of the Delta pilots’ career expectations. This is one of the purposes of the 3-
year top-to-bottom fence proposed by the Delta Committee and explained further below.
Hey, I want this to be fair, but you have to look at what each is bringing to the table. We BOTH have retirements, and this list is FOREVER. DOH hasn't been awarded since the Roberts Award, and with 24 arbitrated cases since (from that one award), nobody can say it was sucessful, except very senior Redbooks. And your Greenbooks that now can move up to the A330 or 744 due to our Manning policies (now 2 Capt and 2 FO on ultra long haul) will stay on your fleets hopefully if there is a 3 year or longer fence, and fly what they were supposed to fly---and now taxi the plane too since they are probably senior to the Redbook Captain they are now sharing the cockpit with. That would be interesting to watch.
Bye Bye--General Lee
