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NWA Pilots passed TA

jetflier

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Today the NWA pilots approved the concessionary TA..........

5040 eligable to vote
4028 voted
2563 approved the TA (63.6%)
1465 voted against the TA (36.4%)

IMO we should not have approved this TA, It greatly lowers the bar......

I hope DAL has more resolve than our group.....
 

mynameisjim

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jetflier said:
IMO we should not have approved this TA, It greatly lowers the bar......
As a nonsenority fellow NWA worker I agree that it lowers the bar, but I ask: What is the alternative?

Negotiations had stopped while you vote on this tentative agreement. If any union doesn't agree with it, the judge will likely impose it on the 16th.

At least in creating a TA ALPA could chose where the 60% came from. Is IAM any better off than you by not agreeing to a TA?
 

Dizel8

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Huh?
Was the vote for a interim TA or a permanent one?
 

mynameisjim

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Dizel8 said:
Was the vote for a interim TA or a permanent one?
The agreement was a temporary cut in exchange for extending the 1113 ( c ) negotiations.

Complete details of the TA can be found on http://www.bsillc.com/

Select "Case Information" on the bottom left side. The Select Northwest Airlines from the list. The 1113 ( e ) agreement is in the court paperwork, docket #905.

This link MAY work:
http://chapter11.epiqsystems.com/WebPortal/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentPk=fe98158f-c2e9-4c5a-a11e-6f589dbe24da

Maybe the ALPA guys can post a better link from ALPA, not sure.

*Edit* The APLA agreement is exibit 1. Payscales (since it seems that all some people care about) are on page 43.
 

YourPilotFriend

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I think the key for us here at NWA is a unified seniority list to make sure anybody flying an airplane with the Northwest paint scheme is a NWA pilot. Even if it means...hrmm....throwing those PNCL and MES to the bottom of the list. The bottom line is they are going to get 70+ seat airplanes for some other company lets just keep NWA pilots in them. Once we lose scope, they start training our replacements. We can worry about our pay another day.
 

holdon

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How many furloughs are they talking now?
 

Lear70

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Without taking 20 minutes to read it...

Are there ANY changes to scope provisions anywhere in the temporary agreement?

I'm not exactly "excited" about getting stapled to the bottom of ANYONE'S list, but it sure beats the alternative of farming red-tail flying to new carriers. Hope you guys can find a way to keep it all on-property.
 

Lucky Strike

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No changes to scope with interim agreement....that's what the extra two month's supposedly buy us...more time to negotiate scope,etc.
 

whymeworry?

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IMO, y'all are nuts.

That said, if you get a fair game from management over the next 60 days, and up through the 1113 filing, I will retract my comments. The problem is, from everything I've read, you're dealing with a highly corrupt management team. Most of them sold their shares in NWAC just prior to the CH11 filing (read:insider trading), virtually all of them protected their precious eliteist lives with ironclad, CH11 proof, golden parachutes and pension packages, and your general counsel is from Lorenzo's team. How can you possibly expect these guys to negotiate in good faith over the next 60 days? Furthermore, aren't these the same morons who single-handedly derailed every fare hike over the past 5 years and helped get us all to this position in the first place? Perhaps I don't have a clue what I'm talking about but in any battle you size up your adversary, it appears the pilots of NW failed to do so.

The courts have the pilots of this country running scared about their jobs the leadership at ALPA national seems to be like a deer in headlights about this entire debacle.

The only way to make management realize who runs the airline is to stand up to them. Something the NW pilots clearly failed to do.

Y'all should've gone to school on AQ. They have shown up in force everyday of the 1113 court proceedings. Their management signed a promise NEVER to seek 1113 and they lied. When the judge shows up for court every day and faces an onslaught of pilots fighting for their profession, he gets the human side of what is happening, instead of the routine jockeying by lawyers and consultants who are trying to get rich on the backs of the pilots and other employees.

At any rate, good luck over the next 60 days. For all of our sakes, I hope my comments are dead-wrong and you protect things like scope and work rules. Hopefully this latest vote is the NW pilots line in the sand.
 
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crashpad

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YourPilotFriend said:
Even if it means...hrmm....throwing those PNCL and MES to the bottom of the list.
Great idea! Brillliant!! The NWA pilot group would have flow-back rights and protect their jobs as well. I'd be all over that in a heartbeat.
 

YourPilotFriend

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crashpad said:
Great idea! Brillliant!! The NWA pilot group would have flow-back rights and protect their jobs as well. I'd be all over that in a heartbeat.
Thats right, it does protect their jobs and yours. Don't you see this is about protecting scope. Sometimes you have to jump on your own sword to protect your future and the future of fellow pilots. Understand that if NWA pilots lose scope they will liquidate the company. If you think your going to get 70 seat airplanes at mesaba at good pay rates without scope; your dreaming. If you have a unified list you have way more bargining power. One company logo, one contract, one group of pilots. If you lose scope, it's a race to the bottom.
 

Lear70

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YourPilotFriend said:
Thats right, it does protect their jobs and yours. Don't you see this is about protecting scope. Sometimes you have to jump on your own sword to protect your future and the future of fellow pilots. Understand that if NWA pilots lose scope they will liquidate the company. If you think your going to get 70 seat airplanes at mesaba at good pay rates without scope; your dreaming. If you have a unified list you have way more bargining power. One company logo, one contract, one group of pilots. If you lose scope, it's a race to the bottom.
Well-said !!

From a PCL CRJ driver, I'd gladly "take one for the team" with a downgrade or voluntary furlough doing something else for a few years in order to get ONE LIST with Scope language that keeps the restrictions in place.

That said, I don't think we'll ever see it - the judge would never approve something so contrary to "industry average"; that's what he's supposed to be looking for in the 1113(c) filing.

Good luck, keep as much scope as you possibly can, and let us know if/when you need us to walk the picket line with you. Did it during Mesaba's picketing in the dead of winter in DTW, I'll do it again for NWA in MSP if need be.

STOP THE DOWNWARD SLIDE !!!
 

CFIT

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YourPilotFriend said:
Thats right, it does protect their jobs and yours. Don't you see this is about protecting scope. Sometimes you have to jump on your own sword to protect your future and the future of fellow pilots. Understand that if NWA pilots lose scope they will liquidate the company. If you think your going to get 70 seat airplanes at mesaba at good pay rates without scope; your dreaming. If you have a unified list you have way more bargining power. One company logo, one contract, one group of pilots. If you lose scope, it's a race to the bottom.
I know, I know, it just looks like he is trying to screw you. When all he really has is his hand on your hips and you're grabbing your ankles.

Really, he is protecting you (bullsh!t) while you are "jumping on your own sword".

Don't worry after he flowsback and takes your job he'll give back after a few years and goes back to mainline.
 

YourPilotFriend

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CFIT said:
I know, I know, it just looks like he is trying to screw you. When all he really has is his hand on your hips and you're grabbing your ankles.

Really, he is protecting you (bullsh!t) while you are "jumping on your own sword".

Don't worry after he flowsback and takes your job he'll give back after a few years and goes back to mainline.
If there is one list everyone is mainline silly. I'm not out to screw anybody; I'm here to help stop what happened to me from happening to other people, thats why I joined this forum. What prevents NWA from giving PNCL the airbus aircraft or any other company for that matter. You do know northwest doesn;t own any of it's airplanes, it could be gone tomorrow and nobody will even know what happened. All of upper management no longer has a stake in the company, the only ones who do are the employee's. If we don;t take control of this right now, it's going to be much worse than you could imagine.
 

NDPILOT

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What prevents NWA from giving PNCL the airbus aircraft
We still haven't figured out the crj, god save the flying public if we were to fly an airbus.
I can see it now.

"I went from 0 hours to an airbus in only 8 months!"
 

Green

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ND Pilot,
\

I don't think many people are worried about you safely flying the Airbus. People are concerned with the payrates going down the proverbial toilet. I could just see pncl offering a 5 dollar override for all narrowbod aircraft....
 

Fly4hire

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YourPilotFriend said:
I think the key for us here at NWA is a unified seniority list to make sure anybody flying an airplane with the Northwest paint scheme is a NWA pilot. Even if it means...hrmm....throwing those PNCL and MES to the bottom of the list.
OK Professor, how would you handle seniority integration,furloughs and recalls on the integrated list?
 

YourPilotFriend

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Fly4hire said:
OK Professor, how would you handle seniority integration,furloughs and recalls on the integrated list?
I know It would be messy at first, however, you have to look long term on this one. I know the proposal that northwest has out for newco. There is no other truthful information out there except what has been filed in the courts. The other stuff is propaganda and rumors. Management wants a totally new contract with NewCo pilots maybe less pay maybe different terms, nobody knows.

Also you said in another post that XJ/PNCL have no rights to newco flying. if thats the case then why do we have any right to newco flying. By that logic we have rights to XJ/PNCL flying they are getting 70 seat airplanes thats above our 55 seat limit. Anybody who flys an airplane with the northwest paint scheme has the rights to fly any northwest airplane. The latter mentality is a dangerous way of thinking and has put us in the postion we are in today.
 
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