NWA Phantom retirements

[nwaredtail]

So far in 2008, 100 NWA pilots have retired and 37 have opted to stay past 60, with only 50% of those in Captain positions.

I thought Moak said no NWA pilots would retire?

 

[JohnQ]

So far in 2008, 100 NWA pilots have retired and 37 have opted to stay past 60, with only 50% of those in Captain positions.

I thought Moak said no NWA pilots would retire?

I'm not sure that he said that. But let me ask you this.

Do you think that there would have been 100 NWA retirements if they were assured of substantial pay raises, significant equity $$$, and a 14% DC contribution based on aforementioned significant pay hikes?

I am sure that some would still have retired, but I am also quite convinced that some would not have.

The problem is that we need a crystal ball, and don't have one. We just have a problem with NWA guys claiming a seniority stake based on retirements that may not happen.

On the other hand, you are certainly right not to expect to take a seniority hit based on a lack of retirements that may not happen.

 

[nwaredtail]

Do you think that there would have been 100 NWA retirements if they were assured of substantial pay raises, significant equity $$$, and a 14% DC contribution based on aforementioned significant pay hikes?

Don't care, facts are 100 guys left. PERIOD. Maybe more would have left if Moak wouldn't have walked away and agreed to less equity, pass raises, and rules for his pilots. He has tried to deflect blame for this, but the fact is, we all had more money before Moak left the room.

I am sure that some would still have retired, but I am also quite convinced that some would not have.

That is an opinion, not fact.

The problem is that we need a crystal ball, and don't have one. We just have a problem with NWA guys claiming a seniority stake based on retirements that may not happen.

Easily rectified, and you all would be surprised what was agreed to about that. Wait and see.

On the other hand, you are certainly right not to expect to take a seniority hit based on a lack of retirements that may not happen.

[/QUOTE]

Not sure I understand this.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Easily rectified, and you all would be surprised what was agreed to about that. Wait and see.

Also easily rectified, just tell us.

 

[nwaredtail]

Also easily rectified, just tell us.

The fact that DAL pilots are not aware of Moak's last offer to NWA is SCARYYYYYY.

I am very satisfied that the NWA retirement "issue" is being handles appropriately.

I suggest you contact Moak and ask him.

 

[JohnQ]

The fact that DAL pilots are not aware of Moak's last offer to NWA is SCARYYYYYY.

Kind of like how unaware the NWA guys are with your merger committee's first SLI integration proposal. You should call a rep and ask what it was. The answer certainly wouldn't convince you that your merger committee had "unity" on their minds.

 

[Superpilot92]

I'm not sure that he said that. But let me ask you this.

Do you think that there would have been 100 NWA retirements if they were assured of substantial pay raises, significant equity $$$, and a 14% DC contribution based on aforementioned significant pay hikes? Most could care less considering they have very nice pensions and a large amount of them have military retirements on top of that.

I am sure that some would still have retired, but I am also quite convinced that some would not have. Sure some Might stay for the potential equity and would leave shortly there after.

The problem is that we need a crystal ball, and don't have one. No you dont, even if all of them stayed to 65 they WILL retire and the seniority progression WILL be there. We just have a problem with NWA guys claiming a seniority stake based on retirements that may not happen. Yeah you're right they will never retire

On the other hand, you are certainly right not to expect to take a seniority hit based on a lack of retirements that may not happen.

Bottom line is NWA pilots have alot more seniority progression expected in the very near future more so than DAL even if everyone stayed to 65 (not going to happen). Thats why dynamic seniority is fair for everyone. That way we all keep the same progression in relative time that we expected as stand alone carriers. Time is money

 

[filejw]

FYI . Most of the guys staying past 60 are hoping for an equity payment from the merger other wise they would be gone.

 

[General Lee]

FYI . Most of the guys staying past 60 are hoping for an equity payment from the merger other wise they would be gone.

Can you get it in writing that ALL of your age 60 guys WILL leave and the document will stand up in a court of law? Otherwise, fogetaboutit.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Bottom line is NWA pilots have alot more seniority progression expected in the very near future more so than DAL even if everyone stayed to 65 (not going to happen). Thats why dynamic seniority is fair for everyone. That way we all keep the same progression in relative time that we expected as stand alone carriers. Time is money

Yet AGAIN, when we retired our 2000 or so senior Captains, we also parked our MD11s, 767-200s, 737-200s, and 737-300s. Our seniority progression after the retirements was minimal. How would your guys do if you right now parked all of the DC9s and 742s? You are NOT taking into account the loss of airplanes that likely will go away on your side. We shouldn't have to take a hit for your old planes.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Fly4hire]

Yet AGAIN, when we retired our 2000 or so senior Captains, we also parked our MD11s, 767-200s, 737-200s, and 737-300s. Our seniority progression after the retirements was minimal.

Some were parked and many were replaced. Same thing happened at NWA. We are both smaller than we were 4yrs ago. You did not lose 2000 pilot positions worth of aircraft. Maybe you'd like to make public the bid awards from that period? Is that why your management had retired pilots come back to fly because they were so short staffed with all the upgrade training going on and not enough pilots to fly the line?

How would your guys do if you right now parked all of the DC9s and 742s? You are NOT taking into account the loss of airplanes that likely will go away on your side. We shouldn't have to take a hit for your old planes.

That's as irrelevant as what would you do if all of your DC9-80's, which most are only slightly newer than our DC-9-50's were to be parked. The fact is our DC9 and 747-200's are not being parked past what has already been planned. RA says he plans to use them until a suitable 100 seat derivative acft is available.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The guys that are leaving are the ones that has the biggest pay out in the DB plan. As you start to move down your list the size of the payout will diminish as will the amount of retirements.
Was it not one of you that stated that the pension was great for only about 500 of your pilots and stunk for the rest. From what I have been told by many friends there, that is a correct statement.
Given those facts many of the less senior pilots turning 60 in the near future will not leave. You ratio of who will actually leave will not hold up. You know it was well as our respective MEC's.

Lets try a new argument, one that the lawyers cannot see straight through.
Of course there are two sides to every story and somewhere in the middle is the truth, but money is money and when your lump sum is not that big, you gotta stick around for the 200K+ a year in income and the 50K+ in retirement saving that you will get. The pilots retiring now had more to loose by not retiring than they did by staying. Look at the pay outs for the next 500 guys. It is not the same.

 

[filejw]

Can you get it in writing that ALL of your age 60 guys WILL leave and the document will stand up in a court of law? Otherwise, fogetaboutit.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Age 60 has nothing to do with it. When they do retire we want the benefit just like you did when your 2000 or so left before BK.

 

[AA717driver]

The Delta pilots on the property have already reaped the windfall from the retirements.

There was no mass exodus at NWA.

Anyone with any credibility want to dispute that?

Now, DALPA wants to try to sell an inferior SLI to the NWA people by telling them how much better their contract will be.

AA told the TWA people how much better their contract was, too. Scant comfort during the 3 1/2 years I was on the street.

Don't fall for it. TC

 

[PuffDriver]

The Delta pilots on the property have already reaped the windfall from the retirements.

There was no mass exodus at NWA.

Anyone with any credibility want to dispute that?

Now, DALPA wants to try to sell an inferior SLI to the NWA people by telling them how much better their contract will be.

AA told the TWA people how much better their contract was, too. Scant comfort during the 3 1/2 years I was on the street.

Don't fall for it. TC

We "reaped" nothing. The earlies were bought and paid for, through the loss of our DB plan. NWA still has theirs, albeit frozen.

We are not trying to "sell" anything. WE are making the best of a bad situation by gaining some contractual improvements. It is going through memrat as we speak. Should it fail, our MEC is back to the drawing board with a few options up to and including opposing the merger.

It is funny how Delta guys are being painted as the bad guys here. We are not the ones who are whining and crying about stagnation, we were the ones who came into SLI and contract discussions. We were not the ones who came in from day 1 looking for arbitration. We were not the ones who had to replace a member of our negotiating committee, nor did we have to have multiple witnesses in the room to make sure that our guys were doing their jobs.

We DID agree to a NWA proposed SLI, only to have them pull the offer because they had not thought the matter through themselves. In short, the "hicks" from the south have their act together, and the red tails have their tails between their legs out on the road doing spin control. One group has road shows making excuses, the other did something about it and is having road shows in order to inform its membership where we go from here.

You want credit for a few guys who MIGHT retire? Pullease. It's coming. The day of, oh s*&t, maybe we should have taken the first offer.

You TWA guys make me laugh, you sound like the PanAM guys. It was a sh*&^y deal for you, no doubt. Get over it and move on with your life. Or complain about it on an anonymous BB for the rest of your life, I don't really care. It has nothing to do with this deal.