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NWA, Fifth Freedom Rights and Network

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Sedona16

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2001
Posts
564
Fifth Freedom Rights (from a congressional hearing):

(Fred Smith- Fedex speaking) The construct of the 1944 convention and these aviation treaties is built around ten freedoms of the air, and they are known. The first and second are technical and the ninth and tenth are also arcane and technical. But for the purposes of the understanding of this committee, the most significant are the third, fourth, fifth, and sixth freedom rights. The third and fourth freedom traffic rights are simply the rights to carry traffic to and from one's own home country to another. Where the issue becomes arcane but hugely important is the issue of fifth and sixth freedom traffic rights, as Mr. Greenwald pointed out in his excellent primer on the significance of the Bermuda II agreement in 1977. The fifth freedom traffic is the right of a carrier such as FedEx or United to land in Japan or the United Kingdom and enplane cargo or passengers from Japan or the United Kingdom to another country, or vice versa. The sixth freedom traffic is exactly the same economic right but by the carrier of that country enplaning traffic from another point to yet a third point. An example of that might be Japan Airlines or Nippon Cargo Airlines picking up a load of semiconductors in Malaysia bound for the United States, commingling it with traffic to Japan, stopping in Tokyo, off-loading the traffic destined for Japan and picking up traffic destined for the United States. That is called ''sixth freedom traffic.''

Now the United States, by virtue of the 1952 bilateral treaty based on the principles of the Chicago Convention of 1944, has three carriers which have broad beyond rights over Japan—United Airlines as the successor to Pan American whose Pacific routes it bought some years ago; FedEx as a successor for all cargo operations only to Flying Tigers, a company which we bought 6 years ago; and Northwest Airlines, which has enjoyed those routes and rights for many years. The treaty was amended slightly in 1959 and 1989 but basically the rights that it gives those three U.S. carriers are to participate in the fifth freedom markets beyond Japan without hindrance by the Japanese government. And the treaty is very specific and very straightforward.

Mr OBERSTAR: Mr. Smith (Fred), when you bought Flying Tigers, did you anticipate that you bought the beyond rights?
Mr. SMITH. The authorities held by Flying Tigers, Mr. Chairman, were the basic reason we bought Flying Tigers.
Mr. OBERSTAR. You anticipated having those rights?
Mr. SMITH. And the sale was conditioned on those rights being transferred.
Mr. OBERSTAR. Mr. Greenwald, when United bought Pan Am's Pacific routes, did you anticipate that you also bought beyond rights that were available under the treaty?
Mr. GREENWALD. There is a direct parallel here. United bought Pan Am's Pacific routes and that was also conditioned on the transfer of all those rights fully and it was always intended that they would be put to use.
Mr. OBERSTAR. And in the aftermath of the acquisition in both cases when both carriers tried to exercise those rights, is it not true that the Japanese came back and said you can't do that, we have other rights that we want to exercise in the U.S. in payment for exercising rights you claim under your acquisition. Is that correct?
Mr. SMITH. That's certainly been our experience. (Fedex felt they got screwed….for United it worked out…..its seems freight haulers have been treated differently than PAX operations).

Note: Based upon the precedent set by Pan Am to United, Fifth freedom rights are passed along to an acquiring airline.

(From SEC documents)
International System
Northwest operates international flights to the Pacific and/or the Atlantic regions from its Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul and Memphis hubs, as well as from gateway cities such as Boston, Honolulu, Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco, Seattle and Portland.
Pacific. Northwest has served the Pacific market since 1947 and has one of the world's largest Pacific route networks. Northwest's Pacific operations are concentrated at Narita International Airport in Tokyo, where it has 362 permanent weekly takeoffs and landings ("slots") as of December 31, 2004, the most for any non-Japanese carrier. As a result of a 1952 U.S.-Japan bilateral aviation agreement, Northwest has the right to operate unlimited frequencies between any point in the U.S. and Japan as well as extensive "fifth freedom" rights. Fifth freedom rights allow Northwest to operate service from any gateway in Japan to points beyond Japan and to carry Japanese originating passengers. Northwest and United Airlines, Inc. ("United") are the only U.S. passenger carriers that have fifth freedom rights from Japan. Northwest uses these slots and rights to operate a network linking eight U.S. gateways and twelve Asian destinations via Tokyo. The Asian destinations via Tokyo are Bangkok, Beijing, Busan, Guam, Hong Kong, Manila, Nagoya, Saipan, Seoul, Shanghai, Guangzhou and Singapore. Additionally, Northwest flies nonstop between Detroit and Osaka and Nagoya, and uses its fifth freedom rights to fly beyond Osaka to Taipei and beyond Nagoya to Manila.
Atlantic. Northwest and KLM operate an extensive transatlantic network pursuant to a commercial and operational joint venture. This joint venture benefits from having antitrust immunity, which allows for coordinated pricing, scheduling, product development and marketing. In 1992, the U.S. and the Netherlands entered into an "open-skies" bilateral aviation treaty, which authorizes the airlines of each country to provide international air transportation between any U.S.-Netherlands city pair and to operate connecting service to destinations in other countries. Northwest and KLM operate joint service between Amsterdam and 16 cities in the U.S., Canada and Mexico, as well as between Amsterdam and India. Codesharing between Northwest and KLM has been implemented on flights to 51 European, six Middle Eastern, nine African, three Asian and 169 U.S. cities. Codesharing is an agreement whereby an airline's flights can be marketed under the two-letter designator code of another airline, thereby allowing the two carriers to provide joint service with one aircraft.
 
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Alliances
In addition to its transatlantic joint venture with KLM, Northwest has strengthened its network through other alliance partnerships. Long-term alliances are an effective way for Northwest to enter markets that it would not be able to serve alone. Alliance relationships can include codesharing, reciprocal frequent flyer programs, "through" luggage check-in, reciprocal airport lounge access, joint marketing, sharing of airport facilities and joint procurement of certain goods and services.

Since 1998, Northwest and Continental have been in a domestic and international strategic commercial alliance that connects the two carriers' networks and includes extensive code-sharing, frequent flyer program reciprocity and other cooperative activities. The alliance agreement has a term through 2025.

In August 2002, the Company entered into a cooperative marketing agreement with Continental and Delta. This agreement is designed to connect the three carriers' domestic and international networks and provide for codesharing, reciprocity of frequent flyer programs, airport club use and other cooperative activities. The combined network has increased Northwest's presence in the South, East and Mountain West regions of the U.S., as well as in Latin America.

On September 13, 2004, Northwest, together with KLM and Continental Airlines, formally joined the global SkyTeam Alliance. The addition of Northwest, KLM and Continental makes SkyTeam the world's second largest and fastest growing airline alliance. The nine members of the SkyTeam alliance, Northwest, KLM, Continental, Delta, Air France, Alitalia, Aeroméxico, CSA Czech Airlines and Korean Air, currently serve 341 million passengers annually with 14,320 daily departures to 658 global destinations in more than 130 countries. Northwest customers are now able to accrue and redeem frequent flyer miles in their WorldPerks accounts for travel on any of the airlines that belong to SkyTeam. This alliance affords customers the options and flexibility of traveling on multiple airlines while being treated as a customer traveling on one airline.

On September 24, 2004, the SkyTeam alliance members Air France, Delta, Alitalia and CSA Czech, along with Northwest and KLM, filed a Joint Application for Antitrust Immunity ("ATI") for their transatlantic operations. Northwest and KLM currently have ATI under which they operate their transatlantic joint venture, while Air France, Delta, Alitalia and CSA Czech separately have ATI. The application seeks to bridge the antitrust immunity between the two alliances, enabling these six SkyTeam members to coordinate their international operations more closely, creating a more effective transatlantic alliance that will allow the carriers to enhance cooperation in marketing, coordinate flight schedules, and integrate sales, cargo and some pricing and revenue management initiatives.
Northwest, together with the SkyTeam alliance and its other travel partners, currently provide a global network to over 900 cities in more than 160 countries on six continents.

NW has 29 weekly frequencies to China, more than any other USA carrier. AFAIK, none have to be flown from NRT; they could just as easily be flown as nonstops from LAX, SFO, DFW, ORD or any other hub.
 
"Note: Based upon the precedent set by Pan Am to United, Fifth freedom rights are passed along to an acquiring airline."


Oh SNAP. What does Fly4hire think about this? How about Diesel9? Oberstar is your Congressman in MSP too....

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
The "portability" of NWA's Fifth Freedom rights hasn't been a issue. The key is the terms of the transfer. The signatory party to the deal (NWA) gets to make the call. That means NWA could (and did!) use the rights as collateral...but another party couldn't strip them against NWA's will.

Merger with DAL?

Full rights, even if the new name is "Delta".
 
"Note: Based upon the precedent set by Pan Am to United, Fifth freedom rights are passed along to an acquiring airline."


Oh SNAP. What does Fly4hire think about this? How about Diesel9? Oberstar is your Congressman in MSP too....

Bye Bye--General Lee

I think you are way too caught up in what the name is, or where it's HQ'd, or who buys who. I doesn't matter in how this plays out. This is not a DMC, and if you think somehow that you will have an advantage because the Co. may (or may not be)called DAL or based in ATL you better think again.

The NWA pilots may have faired poorly on this last contract, but I suggest you take a closer look at the history of "Cobra" Airlines. Better hope we reach an agreement that works for both groups, otherwise we'll fight you in the courtroom, on the beaches, and in the streets. We've taken it to the edge and over many times, and can and will again.

You like to talk tough, but rolling over is your MO. Course' you can always get some Comair guys to show you how it's done.
 
This is a great thread - very informative. Finally we get some clarity regarding the potential route transfers - looks like they could happen. Thanks Sedona!
 
I think you are way too caught up in what the name is, or where it's HQ'd, or who buys who. I doesn't matter in how this plays out. This is not a DMC, and if you think somehow that you will have an advantage because the Co. may (or may not be)called DAL or based in ATL you better think again.

The NWA pilots may have faired poorly on this last contract, but I suggest you take a closer look at the history of "Cobra" Airlines. Better hope we reach an agreement that works for both groups, otherwise we'll fight you in the courtroom, on the beaches, and in the streets. We've taken it to the edge and over many times, and can and will again.

You like to talk tough, but rolling over is your MO. Course' you can always get some Comair guys to show you how it's done.


Have you noticed how hostile you are getting with me? I am really making you defensive, even though I am not intending to do that. Calm down please. I am just stating what I read in a MSP newspaper. That is key, the paper from the other airline's hub city. I didn't quote him personally, Liz Fedor did. If you have a problem with that, you should call her. Whether or not Anderson is truthful or not, I do not know. I go by what I have heard from current NWA pilots, who all said they liked him. I do not know him personally, although I have talked to friends who have met with him in line check meetings. Maybe he was lying the whole time to everyone. I don't know.

And, I put on a good show here (because I like the banter and debate), but I really don't strut around in my navy type uniform and not wave at other pilots as they walk by. And, I enjoy my job and company, even with all of the pitfalls, and if that means I have an ego then too bad. If you don't enjoy your job, then I suggest you look for another. As far as what may or may not happen coming up here, I don't know. But, don't get mad if guys like Sedona16 find info about 5th freedom rights and blow your assertions right out of the water. Take it like a man and move on. I've even been wrong, ONCE.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
It will be called Delta, but it will be run by NWA management. NWA management is already running Delta anyway.
 

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