NWA/DAL what's the sentiment?

[PuffDriver]

I'd call it right down the middle right now, with a possible majority of yea. I have not been at work all that much though. What's the skinny over in red land?

 

[Superpilot92]

Its more than likely a yes on the NWA side. This is a great opportunity to bring our great companies together and unify our pilot groups. This will avoid a USAIR mess which is good for ALL of us.

I think most of the chest thumping is calming down and its nice to see our MECs working together proactively for us. I look forward to working together to make this a great airline for all of us. :beer:

 

[General Lee]

I think it will pass on the DL side. It is pretty tough to negotiate for more when the economy is down the tubes and oil is at record highs. Overall, I think the combined company will be stronger than the 2 seperate companies had they stayed on their own.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JetMonkey]

Whats the latest on hiring or furloughing? Talked to a buddy who got hired in Feb, he says he's either gonna be furloughed or have quite a few new hires below him. Is it up in the air right now depending which way oil goes?

 

[Superpilot92]

Whats the latest on hiring or furloughing? Talked to a buddy who got hired in Feb, he says he's either gonna be furloughed or have quite a few new hires below him. Is it up in the air right now depending which way oil goes?

OIL will be the key IMHO. Let hope its keeps heading down. Fingers crossed

 

[General Lee]

Whats the latest on hiring or furloughing? Talked to a buddy who got hired in Feb, he says he's either gonna be furloughed or have quite a few new hires below him. Is it up in the air right now depending which way oil goes?

Good question. I don't really know what is going on over there at NWA, but I have heard they are getting rid of 10 757s, 4 A319s, and 3 742s. We haven't heard of any furloughs or parkings on the Delta side, and are currently getting new airplanes, with the first couple 737-700s coming this month, with a total of 7 coming this year (3 more minimum next year). We will get one new 777LR on Dec 31st of this year, and then 7 more next year. Each one of those 777LRs needs 38 pilots to properly crew it (long flights with 2 Captains and 2 FOs per flight).

I thought we were going to hire this Fall, but now I have heard (on this board) that we might bring in some of the potential NWA furloughs on the bottom of our list, since our certificates will not be merged by the FAA for at least 8-12 months, and nobody can go from side to side without an indoc etc at the other airline. Also, I don't know how that would work with seniority, either. So, that's all I have heard.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[tomgoodman]

Based on past votes...

FWIW, when the "scuttlebutt" indicates a TA vote will be close, it will pass easily. The "no" voters tend to say so early, and the "yes" voters are quieter.

 

[clippyrip]

I thought we were going to hire this Fall, but now I have heard (on this board) that we might bring in some of the potential NWA furloughs on the bottom of our list, since our certificates will not be merged by the FAA for at least 8-12 months, and nobody can go from side to side without an indoc etc at the other airline. Also, I don't know how that would work with seniority, either. So, that's all I have heard.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

So if that does happen would the NWA furloughees who transfer over be considered Delta pilots at SLI integration time and get relative seniority. That would be a great way to get ahead of our brothers here at NWA. HA HA HA

 

[propdog]

Its more than likely a yes on the NWA side. This is a great opportunity to bring our great companies together and unify our pilot groups. This will avoid a USAIR mess which is good for ALL of us.

I think most of the chest thumping is calming down and its nice to see our MECs working together proactively for us. I look forward to working togetherto make this a great airline for all of us. :beer:

I agree with Superpilot. NWA pilots are now supporting the merger as the parity issue is taken care of. Our position has been very consistent. Now, we hope the SLI issue can be negotiated without arbitration.

In the current industry conditions, this will be a good deal. Looking from a pilot's perspective, NWA pilots can share in DAL's extensive European and Latin American flying. DAL pilots can share in NWA's extensive Asian network and cargo flying.

The latest NWA rumors talk about expanding the cargo business. New routes cargo routes to Atlanta and beyond are in the talks. With a combined cargo operation, DAL can accept more Euro-US freight, Euro-Asian freight and US-Asia freight.

All in all, unified, we will be a much stronger airline. It is time to stop internal bickering and move towards that common goal.

 

[whyfly]

Could be my first no vote at DAL.
It`s the LENGTH of the contract that`s a killer for me.
Realistically it would mean 2015 before an amended contract.

 

[clippyrip]

True, good post! Lets become a major cargo hauler and bring that industry back under the legacy umbrella. I for one don't care what I'm hauling as long as the pay is good. Fill those suckers up with rubber dog poo from China for all I care.

 

[Superpilot92]

I agree with Superpilot. NWA pilots are now supporting the merger as the parity issue is taken care of. Our position has been very consistent. Now, we hope the SLI issue can be negotiated without arbitration.

In the current industry conditions, this will be a good deal. Looking from a pilot's perspective, NWA pilots can share in DAL's extensive European and Latin American flying. DAL pilots can share in NWA's extensive Asian network and cargo flying.

The latest NWA rumors talk about expanding the cargo business. New routes cargo routes to Atlanta and beyond are in the talks. With a combined cargo operation, DAL can accept more Euro-US freight, Euro-Asian freight and US-Asia freight.

All in all, unified, we will be a much stronger airline. It is time to stop internal bickering and move towards that common goal.

Agreed!! :beer:

 

[Draginass]

2015!!!! YGBSM. What a sweetheart deal for Anderson.

 

[hockeypilot44]

I hope both sides vote no. There are a lot of better things in the NWA contract that are getting lost. They should take the best of everything. Instead, they are just taking Delta's contract and putting the NWA pilots on it.

 

[Diesel-9]

Agree. ALOT of good stuff left out. Out of pocket costs far above pay raise. Retire guys will really take a hit. (Maybe incentive to leave Need to educate people and at least be able to know what to start working on to improve in short order, i.e. every time the company comes to us for relief. jumpseat, medical, LTD, bidding, etc...Retiree Medical Coverage
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Retired or disabled as of DCC (as a NWA pilot) [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Retired after DCC (as a Delta pilot) [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Continue in NWA BCBS program until 1-1-2010. After 1-1-2010, benefits and premiums will be provided under the terms of the prior NWA CBA Premium cost is 50% of blended rate, with 7% cap on year-over-year increase. Coverage continues to age 65 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]The JCBA specifically provides for grandfathering of NWA pilots, who retire prior to DCC, under the terms of the benefit structure provided for under the NWA CBA.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]3 [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Continue in NWA BCBS program until 1-1-2010. After 1-1-2010, retirees will make elections under the provisions of the JCBA Premiums based on Split Pool, no cap on annual increases. Early Retirees pay 100% of premium until age 60, then 51% of premium until age 65; no coverage after age 65 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]3 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]In 2008, the applicable premiums for retirees are as follows: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]PRE-60 [/FONT][/FONT]
NWA
DPMP
DAL Gold HRA
DAL Silver HRA
DAL HSA
Retiree
$181.32
$812.79
$582.10
$507.90
$584.85
Retiree + Spouse
$391.40
$1625.58
$1164.20
$1015.80
$1168.40
Family
$590.04
$1956.21
$1369.20
$1220.80
$1263.40
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Diesel-9]

Active emp
2 Attached
Premiums under the JCBA
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Employee Only [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Employee + Spouse [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Employee + Child [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Employee + Family [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Medical Options [/FONT][/FONT]
DPMP (network)
$182.00
$401.00
$315.00
$533.00
Gold HRA
$67.00
$145.00
$114.00
$191.00
Silver HRA
$26.00
$55.00
$43.00
$71.00
HSA
$41.00
$88.00
$69.00
$115.00
Health Plan Hawaii
$116.00
$255.20
$197.20
$336.00 2 Attached to this document is a chart that compares deductibles, co-pays and
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]2008 NWA Premiums [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Employee Only [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Employee + Spouse [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Employee + Child [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Employee + Family [/FONT][/FONT]
NWA BCBS
$90.66
$195.70
$154.72
$295.02
NWA Dental
$7.76
$14.98
$17.12
$23.76

 

[Superpilot92]

Retiree Medical Coverage
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Retired or disabled as of DCC (as a NWA pilot) [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Retired after DCC (as a Delta pilot) [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Continue in NWA BCBS program until 1-1-2010. After 1-1-2010, benefits and premiums will be provided under the terms of the prior NWA CBA Premium cost is 50% of blended rate, with 7% cap on year-over-year increase. Coverage continues to age 65 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]The JCBA specifically provides for grandfathering of NWA pilots, who retire prior to DCC, under the terms of the benefit structure provided for under the NWA CBA.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]3 [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Continue in NWA BCBS program until 1-1-2010. After 1-1-2010, retirees will make elections under the provisions of the JCBA Premiums based on Split Pool, no cap on annual increases. Early Retirees pay 100% of premium until age 60, then 51% of premium until age 65; no coverage after age 65 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]3 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]In 2008, the applicable premiums for retirees are as follows: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]PRE-60 [/FONT][/FONT]
NWA
DPMP
DAL Gold HRA
DAL Silver HRA
DAL HSA
Retiree
$181.32
$812.79
$582.10
$507.90
$584.85
Retiree + Spouse
$391.40
$1625.58
$1164.20
$1015.80
$1168.40
Family
$590.04
$1956.21
$1369.20
$1220.80
$1263.40
[/FONT][/FONT]

That is whats going to get rid of some of the senior guys on the fence right there. WOW what a difference.

 

[Jiminmem]

Yeah, I just got that e-mail too, scary. I didn't realize premiums went that high.

 

[Diesel-9]

Add in higher deductables, higher out of pocket costs, a little higher pay rate is meaningless.

 

[General Lee]

Add in higher deductables, higher out of pocket costs, a little higher pay rate is meaningless.

Wow, your family must be sick all of the time.....Cold weather in MSP must do that to a lot of people...and I guess you forgot about the chunk of equity you will get in cash. Put it into a savings account and withdraw money each month while earning a bit of interest. There you go, problem solved.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Diesel-9]

I live in Texas. Family is healthy. Have a couple friends who have had cancer surgury and would have cost them $1000's on the plan we may go to in 2010 although I think our plan will also be an option then for all. Looking at the numbers, I would have to save $500 a month for my 10 years to go to 60 so I wouldn't have to pay the retired pilot health care premium cost out of retirement pay cash flow over my life expectancy. This deal makes the military retirement healthcare even more valuable. P.S. Equity chunk? What amount is projected? $5000-$10000?

 

[General Lee]

I live in Texas. Family is healthy. Have a couple friends who have had cancer surgury and would have cost them $1000's on the plan we may go to in 2010 although I think our plan will also be an option then for all. Looking at the numbers, I would have to save $500 a month for my 10 years to go to 60 so I wouldn't have to pay the retired pilot health care premium cost out of retirement pay cash flow over my life expectancy. This deal makes the military retirement healthcare even more valuable. P.S. Equity chunk? What amount is projected? $5000-$10000?

I thought the equity chunk was a lot more than that... When we left BK and came out with new stock, I got over $200,000. It may not be that much, and it would be pre-tax and some of it would go to fill your 401k limit, but I would think you would get something in cash too. I know certain things pop up in life, but I have never had a problem with our Gold HRA, and I don't think there are large deductibles etc, and emergency room visits are not that expensive. Not too bad, but it would be nicer if it was all free....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Yea, I'm a wavering "yes". It won't take much more to push me into a no.

Reasons:

No time and a half over 80

Lower caps

Poor phase in of the DC plan. Middle seniority people get slammed.

Inability to bid green slip flying sooner than the day before, and even then the system VASTLY favors non-commuters.

VASTLY increased health care costs

JS rules/booking stink

Geriatric PBS software for bidding.

Add all of it up, and the parity/raise gets eaten up pretty quick.

Nu

 

[Superpilot92]

I thought the equity chunk was a lot more than that... When we left BK and came out with new stock, I got over $200,000. It may not be that much, and it would be pre-tax and some of it would go to fill your 401k limit, but I would think you would get something in cash too. I know certain things pop up in life, but I have never had a problem with our Gold HRA, and I don't think there are large deductibles etc, and emergency room visits are not that expensive. Not too bad, but it would be nicer if it was all free....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Werent they tossing numbers around at being less than 20k for the equity payout this go around?

 

[General Lee]

Heyas,

Yea, I'm a wavering "yes". It won't take much more to push me into a no.

Reasons:

No time and a half over 80

Lower caps

Poor phase in of the DC plan. Middle seniority people get slammed.

Inability to bid green slip flying sooner than the day before, and even then the system VASTLY favors non-commuters.

VASTLY increased health care costs

JS rules/booking stink

Geriatric PBS software for bidding.

Add all of it up, and the parity/raise gets eaten up pretty quick.

Nu

Most of what you say is true. But, the greenslipping happens when something pops up and scheduling can't cover it with reserves. Of course people nearby would be able to cover it sooner. You can put in for greenslips and give limitations, like I need 4 hours notice, and if you are senior and they have more than 4 hours before the flight, you could get called. The jumpseat rules aren't bad at DL, you still can get the jumpseat over the phone 4 days prior, and you can get excused for a trip if you can't get there and give yourself at least one back up. Flight attendant jumpseats are usable too if no stew is there. Your DC phase in is because most of you still have some sort of frozen pension. And, the PBS software is not bad, actually it is fairly easy.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[hockeypilot44]

Do probationary pilots get to vote?

 

[General Lee]

Werent they tossing numbers around at being less than 20k for the equity payout this go around?

I guess it depends on how much we are "worth" when we merge. If we get 3.?% and you get 2.4% (?), and the combined company is worth $1 billion, then yes, we won't get much.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Do probationary pilots get to vote?

I don't think so.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

Most of what you say is true. But, the greenslipping happens when something pops up and scheduling can't cover it with reserves. Of course people nearby would be able to cover it sooner. You can put in for greenslips and give limitations, like I need 4 hours notice, and if you are senior and they have more than 4 hours before the flight, you could get called. The jumpseat rules aren't bad at DL, you still can get the jumpseat over the phone 4 days prior, and you can get excused for a trip if you can't get there and give yourself at least one back up. Flight attendant jumpseats are usable too if no stew is there. Your DC phase in is because most of you still have some sort of frozen pension. And, the PBS software is not bad, actually it is fairly easy.

JS:
10.5 days ahead >>> than what DL has, PLUS we can book it on the internet, and have it done with 3rd party software unattended.

Call-in-honest policy is better as well.

MUCH better

Health Insurance
Half the premiums for a superior product with lower deductibles and higher caps

MUCH better

Premium pay for all over 80

MUCH better

Our PBS software (Carmen) is 4 generations past what CLASSbid is. We were using that back in 1998 when NWA was writing the book on PBS, with over 98% bid satisfaction.

Only a fraction of the NWA pilot group has anything close to a full frozen pension. The numbers add up, but it takes another chunk out of "parity".

Even if we were to sell our SLI as the DAL guys seem to want us to do "for parity", I don't see ANYTHING in this agreement worth giving up an inch on the SLI for.

After crunching the numbers, it is, at best, a push with a slight raise in 09. 20k equity at best for senior guys.

Nu

 

[Lucky Strike]

Werent they tossing numbers around at being less than 20k for the equity payout this go around?

Yes...about 20k