NWA/DAL negotiations update

[jayme]

787 delaysuke:

lubbock layovers uke:

Saudia md90s uke:

parked dc-9/742s uke:

more widebodies uke:

lutefisk uke:

For the love of God, just STFU, will you?

 

[General Lee]

787 delaysuke:

lubbock layovers uke:

Saudia md90s uke:

parked dc-9/742s uke:

more widebodies uke:

lutefisk uke:

For the love of God, just STFU, will you?

Ummmm, NO. You forgot RJs clogging up the system and costing us money. At least you are on the "Bro." Now there's a money maker----to Sun Valley at least.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

You proposed 1000 phantom DAL pilots, yet to be hired, to be integrated with our bottom guys? Please, are you kidding?

Can we just get this fact right?

The ratio proposal with dynamic seniority was a NWA Comm position, NOT A DAL POSITION.

The DAL position was relative seniority. The NWA countered with ratios and dymanic seniority. The fact that 1,000 NWA pilots fell in a ratio at the bottom was a NWA position, which was accepted by the Delta pilots, then recinded by the NWA negotiators (who came to the table not fully understanding the effect of the ratios invented to correct for the flaws of dynamic seniority.)

 

[320AV8R]

You talked to Lee Moak on the phone? Wow, sounds like he cares---he actually stopped and talked to you.

Yes I talked to him.

And why are there only 3 days of talks in June? Delta---management---did that, not Lee Moak.

Interesting. Both sides hacked out an entire contract in under 3 weeks in Feb, & now it's gonna take forever to iron out a few details? The word we're getting is HARMONIZATION---- we'll be pahsed in over a long period to LOA 19 levels. Quite a non-starter.

And about the 1000 phantom DL pilots, it looks like we actually may hire that many before the SLI is done---so they really aren't "phantom."

Very doubtful, with Ed B saying DAL domestic capacity will shrink by over ten percent in the upcoming months. However, the fact remains that the SLI deals with pilots on the property NOW, not some future proposal. You did this trick with the Pan Am guys.

Eventually it will come down to the same conclusion, except there will be less NWA planes and more DL planes flying.

Be careful what you wish for. If we're kept at our present rates & you get your raises.....where do you think RA would add the flying? The more efficient side, or the bloated costly side?

 

[dbrownie]

The word we're getting is HARMONIZATION---- we'll be phased in over a long period to LOA 19 levels. Quite a non-starter.

320;

You got that right! a "non-starter"

I am sure everyone will agree to that.....

DB

 

[JAM-BRO]

You have no clue what you are talking about. Their contract is better than ours????? Really. They saved their pension for their senior guys, and lost most of everything else. Their rules are attrocious, and their pay is substandard, but they kept a frozen pension. Their scope is a bit better, but they are hanging on to old planes that really doesn't help their company anyway.

I guess this statement makes you an expert on the NWA contract... Atrocious work rules???? Since you are so well versed in our contract, tell us where yours is SO MUCH BETTER... You probably won't find many... Our rules are very much alike. Coincidence???? Your guess is as good as mine. A few things are better on your contract. A few things are better on ours. Ours is better in SCOPE... Again, DALPA gave Scope up in desperation to get LOA19...

Lastly Gen, If I were you, I would not be so proud about the ATROUCIOUS contract you have... In reality, it sucks as much as ours. I know it. You on the other hand, have had so much Kool-Aid it has made you Kool-Aid Hypoxic.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

The way these guys act on here and the alpa natl. board that they are working for a great company. They work for a bankrupt failing organization like every other pax in this country. RA knows that a stand alone delta will be back in bankruptcy in a few years. I hate to tell you deltoids this but you are not working for a longterm solvent company like fedex or ups. Alone you will be ch11 again soon, and merged we probably will be also if there are not some massive drawdowns in capacity stateside(a big liqudation or two) Think lcc,ual,aa or a couple of the smaller ones such as jb&airtran.

I guess this statement makes you an expert on the NWA contract... Atrocious work rules???? Since you are so well versed in our contract, tell us where yours is SO MUCH BETTER... You probably won't find many... Our rules are very much alike. Coincidence???? Your guess is as good as mine. A few things are better on your contract. A few things are better on ours. Ours is better in SCOPE... Again, DALPA gave Scope up in desperation to get LOA19...

Lastly Gen, If I were you, I would not be so proud about the ATROUCIOUS contract you have... In reality, it sucks as much as ours. I know it. You on the other hand, have had so much Kool-Aid it has made you Kool-Aid Hypoxic.

 

[General Lee]

The way these guys act on here and the alpa natl. board that they are working for a great company. They work for a bankrupt failing organization like every other pax in this country. RA knows that a stand alone delta will be back in bankruptcy in a few years. I hate to tell you deltoids this but you are not working for a longterm solvent company like fedex or ups. Alone you will be ch11 again soon, and merged we probably will be also if there are not some massive drawdowns in capacity stateside(a big liqudation or two) Think lcc,ual,aa or a couple of the smaller ones such as jb&airtran.

The combination of two post BK airlines is any management member's dream come true. We both went through the process, got cleaned up best we could (compared to other airlines), and we are now getting ready to be joined. The thing is, when we went through the process is important. If we went BK now, we might not get the DIP financing. We did it before, and now we are both ready to compete with high oil---compared to AA which still has high priced pensions, high wages (comparitively), and high leases on thier planes and facilities. We want to have the ability to make it through these tough times (arguably the toughest in Airline history), and then thrive when others have fallen. That's the deal here. Hopefully we will make it through and be a survivor. Don't start singing Beyonce's "Survivor" song now......


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

If DALALPA really wants whats best for both groups like some of the DAL guys say then i ask this question. Do you think DALALPA would stand up to DAL mgmt if they try and drag this out? Do you think DALALPA will stand with NWALAPA if DAL mgmt wants to hold NWA pilots back over time? I hope so. That will be where DALALPA to show what their real intentions are. I hope so. We shall see. NWALPA and Pilots wont sit back and let it happen anyway but i has the questions for you DAL guys.

 

[General Lee]

I guess this statement makes you an expert on the NWA contract... Atrocious work rules???? Since you are so well versed in our contract, tell us where yours is SO MUCH BETTER... You probably won't find many... Our rules are very much alike. Coincidence???? Your guess is as good as mine. A few things are better on your contract. A few things are better on ours. Ours is better in SCOPE... Again, DALPA gave Scope up in desperation to get LOA19...

Lastly Gen, If I were you, I would not be so proud about the ATROUCIOUS contract you have... In reality, it sucks as much as ours. I know it. You on the other hand, have had so much Kool-Aid it has made you Kool-Aid Hypoxic.

Granted, your scope rules are better than ours, but plenty of RJs are being parked on our side as we speak (we are trying to dump Mesa too). Other than that, your rules are worse. Do you have 5 day trips on the domestic side? That suks. We don't. We have 6 day trips on the INTL side (along with 2 and 3 days), with a few close to 40 hours. That's nice. We also have sick time issues, but they have been addressed in LOA19. Can you please give me some issues that you don't like? I won't add your pay issues in this discussion, which are pretty bad.


Bye Bye--General Lee