NWA/DAL negotiations update

[Noserider76]

I hate to interupt the lovefest but it might be good to step back and chill a bit. Most of us here have similar backgrounds and interests and would probably get along great in-person. This whole thing has put more uncertainty into an already F-uped industry for all of us and stress levels are high. Both sides have valid arguments, fears, and hopes. This isn't some hobby, it's how we support our families. If you get wrapped up responding to a few posters on a web board who most-likely hold more extreme positions than the average guy at either company, you'll just piss yourself off. I want an acceptable outcome for both sides and don't want to see anyone get screwed. Really, the average guy trying to make a living at both companies is just along for the ride.

 

[737 Pylt]

I hate to interupt the lovefest but it might be good to step back and chill a bit. Most of us here have similar backgrounds and interests and would probably get along great in-person. This whole thing has put more uncertainty into an already F-uped industry for all of us and stress levels are high. Both sides have valid arguments, fears, and hopes. This isn't some hobby, it's how we support our families. If you get wrapped up responding to a few posters on a web board who most-likely hold more extreme positions than the average guy at either company, you'll just piss yourself off. I want an acceptable outcome for both sides and don't want to see anyone get screwed. Really, the average guy trying to make a living at both companies is just along for the ride.

And that about sums it up!:beer:

737

 

[General Lee]

I hate to interupt the lovefest but it might be good to step back and chill a bit. Most of us here have similar backgrounds and interests and would probably get along great in-person. This whole thing has put more uncertainty into an already F-uped industry for all of us and stress levels are high. Both sides have valid arguments, fears, and hopes. This isn't some hobby, it's how we support our families. If you get wrapped up responding to a few posters on a web board who most-likely hold more extreme positions than the average guy at either company, you'll just piss yourself off. I want an acceptable outcome for both sides and don't want to see anyone get screwed. Really, the average guy trying to make a living at both companies is just along for the ride.

I hope people realize that Flightinfo is partially for information gathering, and mostly for entertainment. Some people really take this seriously, and NOBODY really knows what will happen. Some info is pasted every once and awhile, but that is about it. Calm down people and enjoy the BANTER. Sheesh. If you guys met me, first thing you would say is "Wow, that guy looks like Lerch----about 6'4" and 125 lbs." The next thing you would say is "that guy smells FANTASTIC."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PuffDriver]

Your post is exactly what my question was fishing for. DALALPA and SOME of you DAL guys act like its acceptable to strongarm us. If we dont "agree" then you state things will be bad for us at NWA. Your mentality is exactly why SOME of the NWA guys are skeptical of DALALPA and DAL Mgmts s intentions. I give you guys the benefit of the doubt but take a step back and read what you wrote and tell me if the shoe was on the other foot, what would you think. Serious answer please.

Wow, you are sooo clever. I totally got reeled in by that one. If the shoe ere on the other foot, I would be very nervous. My MEC, the NWA MEC, has put me in a very precarious position. They tried to leverage the Delta pilots, and negotiate while the Delta pilots were telling them that THEY were not negotiating. All part of tactics, right? Wrong, their--the Delta MEC--actions since have been consistent with the fact that their proposal was the minimum they would accept. it was NOT a starting position with which to come down from.

I would be pissed that my MEC blew what was a very good deal in this market. I would be very skeptical of ANYTHING my MEC was saying at this time--as they blew a good deal and now have a great deal of egg on their face. I would see that Delta brings a great deal to this merger, which will create the only combination possible to ensure minimal overlap.

I would be very nervous that the economy is going to further erode prior to the merger, thus forcing the grounding of more DC-9s--and mean layoffs at NWA and Compass while Delta is hiring for their 777 deliveries and their 737 deliveries. This could be very bad for me, as a NWA pilot, in the eyes of an arbitrator. I would pay attention very closely to the ALPA national board, and the occasional posts from guys who were actually there, as opposed to the many posts from people who never were.

How was that.

It's pretty simple, I like the DC-9s and the 747s. The plan is for them to go away. We will SHARE that pain. I like the fact that about the time your retirements start to dry up, ours begin. We will SHARE both sets of retirements. For every one of our guys that is trying to get a leg up via the parking of the -9s, there is one of your guys trying to get a leg up via retirements. I am neither. It is a merger of equals, but there is NO disputing that our seniority buys us more coming into the transaction. You are going to take a hit. It is going to happen. Seniority IS forever. We've got it at the time of the transaction, you don't.

Save the double breasted sky god, arrogant Delta pilot, greedy bastard routine. You are appealing to emotions that I don't have. None of those things have ANYTHING to do with what is at hand. It's business, plain and simple. You MEC is scrambling to put on a show, and get you something that you don't have. That is about as direct as I can be. That doesn't mean that we are out to screw you. That means that our version of fair is much different that yours, and is also more correct in the sense that mergers have gone.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff

Let me make it CRYSTAL for you... Our scope has restriction too. Unless there is a joint contract AND an SLI, NO ONE BUT NWA PILOTS touch our planes or routes... So yes, you get your pay raise but it's a sinking ship if we are not brought on board soon... Parking planes right now is an issue of gas, not the merger. Furloughs(Hopefully not) can happen on either side.

I think it behooves your side to get our side on the boat... Join us and start rowing....

So sink it already. We're waiting with baited breath.
<whisper> you don't have the power to sink it.

 

[RedRum]

Who really blew it

I would be pissed that my MEC blew what was a very good deal in this market. I would be very skeptical of ANYTHING my MEC was saying at this time--as they blew a good deal and now have a great deal of egg on their face.

Are you kidding me? Where the hell have you been the past 2 months? How do you figure that the NWA MEC "blew a good deal" when you guys threw us under the Airbus and negotiated Letter 19 behind our backs. DAL and NWA had a specific date to announce and we didn't feel it necessary to sign something that would negotiate away our SLI position. Plain and simple. Our MEC didn't blow it.

What a load of crap. And you know it.

Get over yourself and your high and mighty attitude toward NWA pilots. We bring a lot to the table. You took advantage of your position at the negotiating table and disenfranchised over 5000 pilots at the same time.

We had a deal in February, albeit in a better economic environment, now your company is talking about hiring pilots in October while you sit here and talk about NWA pilots getting furloughed.

I got news for you. You guys aren't immune from furlough either but you really sealed the deal for the NWA guys when you came up with Letter 19 and your better-than-thou no furlough clause with DAL management. What goes around comes around. You don't get your money until this deal closes, so don't go out buying that Beamer just yet.

There is still some fight left in this dog at NWA.

ONE AIRLINE ONE CONTRACT

NO HARMONIZATION, PERIOD

To all the DAL pilots who exhibit more rational intellect, I apologize in advance. I just call it like I see it and that post by Puffy boy was uneducated, ignorant and pure unadulturated bovine excrement!

 

[Superpilot92]

Wow, you are sooo clever. I totally got reeled in by that one. If the shoe ere on the other foot, I would be very nervous. My MEC, the NWA MEC, has put me in a very precarious position. They tried to leverage the Delta pilots, and negotiate while the Delta pilots were telling them that THEY were not negotiating. All part of tactics, right? Wrong, their--the Delta MEC--actions since have been consistent with the fact that their proposal was the minimum they would accept. it was NOT a starting position with which to come down from.

I would be pissed that my MEC blew what was a very good deal in this market. I would be very skeptical of ANYTHING my MEC was saying at this time--as they blew a good deal and now have a great deal of egg on their face. I would see that Delta brings a great deal to this merger, which will create the only combination possible to ensure minimal overlap.

I would be very nervous that the economy is going to further erode prior to the merger, thus forcing the grounding of more DC-9s--and mean layoffs at NWA and Compass while Delta is hiring for their 777 deliveries and their 737 deliveries. This could be very bad for me, as a NWA pilot, in the eyes of an arbitrator. I would pay attention very closely to the ALPA national board, and the occasional posts from guys who were actually there, as opposed to the many posts from people who never were.

How was that.

It's pretty simple, I like the DC-9s and the 747s. The plan is for them to go away. We will SHARE that pain. I like the fact that about the time your retirements start to dry up, ours begin. We will SHARE both sets of retirements. For every one of our guys that is trying to get a leg up via the parking of the -9s, there is one of your guys trying to get a leg up via retirements. I am neither. It is a merger of equals, but there is NO disputing that our seniority buys us more coming into the transaction. You are going to take a hit. It is going to happen. Seniority IS forever. We've got it at the time of the transaction, you don't.

Save the double breasted sky god, arrogant Delta pilot, greedy bastard routine. You are appealing to emotions that I don't have. None of those things have ANYTHING to do with what is at hand. It's business, plain and simple. You MEC is scrambling to put on a show, and get you something that you don't have. That is about as direct as I can be. That doesn't mean that we are out to screw you. That means that our version of fair is much different that yours, and is also more correct in the sense that mergers have gone.

You have done nothing in your post but prove that you feel you are better than NWA and that we dont deserve to prosper from this deal also because DAL is "saving" us.

*Whisper*~ Without NWA DAL would be in serious problems if the economy goes further down the tubes. NWA has the flexibility of parking aircraft if needed with no repercussions of being stuck with leases. That's not good for pilots but its good for the long term success of a company. DAL has massive debts and doesnt have the flexibility to dig in and tough the storm.

Bottom line is both sides bring alot to the table and i think we will knock out a joint contract together but the SLI will go to arbitration. You're right Seniority is Forever hence why our guys arent letting you strongarm us with the SLI. I want a fair deal for both sides but it appears by your posts you want your version of *fair* because you THINK you are better positioned. Show a little character and stop trying to justify your idea of *fair*. We are in this together and to make this a long term successful company it would be smart not to divide the pilot group who will soon make up almost half of OUR list.

Cya Puffy

 

[~~~^~~~]

How do you do business with an MEC that will not do business?

When you offer to work with someone and their response is "F_U_DAL," the answer is clear and you move on.

It is not the intent of Delta's pilots, or management, to move on without the NWA pilots - but - the fact remains that the result of intransigence is irrelevance.

Delta pilots like Delta Air Lines. Call it arrogance, call it sleeping with the enemy, whatever.... Truth is, Delta is a good place to work.

We want the same contract on day one. If there is a "harmonization" period depends entirely on how long it takes the NWA pilots to change their tune and get on the same sheet of music.

The words to our song do not include "F U" anywhere in the chorus.

 

[Superpilot92]

Are you kidding me? Where the hell have you been the past 2 months? How do you figure that the NWA MEC "blew a good deal" when you guys threw us under the Airbus and negotiated Letter 19 behind our backs. DAL and NWA had a specific date to announce and we didn't feel it necessary to sign something that would negotiate away our SLI position. Plain and simple. Our MEC didn't blow it.

What a load of crap. And you know it.

Get over yourself and your high and mighty attitude toward NWA pilots. We bring a lot to the table. You took advantage of your position at the negotiating table and disenfranchised over 5000 pilots at the same time.

We had a deal in February, albeit in a better economic environment, now your company is talking about hiring pilots in October while you sit here and talk about NWA pilots getting furloughed.

I got news for you. You guys aren't immune from furlough either but you really sealed the deal for the NWA guys when you came up with Letter 19 and your better-than-thou no furlough clause with DAL management. What goes around comes around. You don't get your money until this deal closes, so don't go out buying that Beamer just yet.

There is still some fight left in this dog at NWA.

ONE AIRLINE ONE CONTRACT

NO HARMONIZATION, PERIOD

:beer:

To all the DAL pilots who exhibit more rational intellect, I apologize in advance. I just call it like I see it and that post by Puffy boy was uneducated, ignorant and pure unadulturated bovine excrement!

Well said!! :beer:

 

[Superpilot92]

How do you do business with an MEC that will not do business?

When you offer to work with someone and their response is "F_U_DAL," the answer is clear and you move on.

It is not the intent of Delta's pilots, or management, to move on without the NWA pilots - but - the fact remains that the result of intransigence is irrelevance. Fortunately, the process cant move on without the NWA pilots. Either way DAL has 5000 NWA pilots that are part of this just as much as you are.

Delta pilots like Delta Air Lines. Call it arrogance, call it sleeping with the enemy, whatever.... Truth is, Delta is a good place to work.

We want the same contract on day one. If there is a "harmonization" period depends entirely on how long it takes the NWA pilots to change their tune and get on the same sheet of music.

The words to our song do not include "F U" anywhere in the chorus.

BOTH sides want to get the Joint Contract Done ASAP no questions asked on that. Its the SLI that might take more time. If the two groups knock out the Joint Contract why should there be any "harmonization"? Would DALALPA sit back and let that happen if we had a joint contract figured out? Against Popular belief NWA ALPA wants to get something worked out also but you guys moving forward with mgmt instead of your alpa brothers caused a rift. Not exactly a great idea when you divide whats soon to be almost half of the new DAL pilots seniority list. NWA ALPA wants a deal and even your guys are saying the talks are getting better but we cant let this divide us any further if we want to make this and eventual strong united pilot group.

Both sides have talented people working on our behalf's, lets let them do their jobs without making to many judgments.