NWA/DAL Merger to be Announced Today

[Redmeat]

So, you would rather fly this:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0873292&size=L&width=1200&height=842&sok=&photo_nr=

than this:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1173613&size=L&width=1024&height=695&sok=&photo_nr=5

or:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1318843&size=L&width=1024&height=695&sok=&photo_nr=76

Gee, OYS must be smokin' crack to make that switch! I'd say he did a lot better than most of you guys. After all, he isn't in your anxiety-producing situation. Sounds like he got out of this lame business just in time.

I like your "my big, old, dilapidated jet is better than your smaller, faster, more high-tech and more luxurious jet" attitude. Good luck with that!

What are you 13?

It takes a PILOT to appreciate the DC9.

The X Box generation will be the straw that broke the airline pilot's back generation.

The Old Girl...bless her heart.

 

[General Lee]

What are you 13?

It takes a PILOT to appreciate the DC9.

The X Box generation will be the straw that broke the airline pilot's back generation.

The Old Girl...bless her heart.

It also takes a REAL surgeon to do surgery not using anesthetic on a patient. Same with a REAL dentist.

I don't know, I kinda like new advancements in technology, and it probably saves gas to have an FMS and autothrottle. Thank gawd you guys have unlimited funds to pay for it, thanks to your lower pay.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

I have tried to mellow out a bit, but some know it alls like to come on here and spout off. I just wanted to post an actual article or analysis, and 319 gets all excited. The constant cold weather up North is really getting to a few of you.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Wow, playing to the crowd that didn't get to see the pre-edit version. Cute. "I just wanted to post an article" GMAFB. Your article had zero credibility as indicated by the ridiculous claim that all airline mergers result in mutually agreed pilot settlements. The author at seeking alpha (not alpa as you wrote) obviously has not clue #1 about how the industry works. And your article post was preceded by completely offensive personal remarks that you edited away when you got called on it. Nice try at deflecting though.

The constant cold weather up North is really getting to a few of you.

I bet I live further South than you do BobbyLee.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ACL:

Mike Haber would get busy again if that were to happen and I'm not a Haber fan, at all.....

Looks like Haber is taking cash from USAPA

 

[737 Pylt]

I bet I live further South than you do BobbyLee.

Yeah, but that's real easy to do.....Just hook up the trailer to the old f150 and drive it to whatever trailer park you want to!:laugh: :laugh:

737

 

[General Lee]

Wow, playing to the crowd that didn't get to see the pre-edit version. Cute. "I just wanted to post an article" GMAFB. Your article had zero credibility as indicated by the ridiculous claim that all airline mergers result in mutually agreed pilot settlements. The author at seeking alpha (not alpa as you wrote) obviously has not clue #1 about how the industry works. And your article post was preceded by completely offensive personal remarks that you edited away when you got called on it. Nice try at deflecting though.

I bet I live further South than you do BobbyLee.

Sure you do, and there is no way you would bid ATL in a merger, rather only DTW......riiiiight. Yeah, I'll see you in ATL alright, and you better do the walkaround before I get to the gate, twice. And hey, good catch on the Seeking "Alpa"--wow, I didn't even catch that. You're fast for a future FO at Delta.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

Sure you do, and there is no way you would bid ATL in a merger, rather only DTW......riiiiight. Yeah, I'll see you in ATL alright, and you better do the walkaround before I get to the gate, twice.

Yawn. You need to buy some new material before you start your standup gig by the Big Chicken.

You "get to the gate" twice?Weird.Must be a deltoid thing huh.

 

[~~~^~~~]

DTW: You bet we do - what? Is your ego writing checks your body can't cash? You're Dangerous!

http://kr.truveo.com/SNL-Top-Gun-727Will-Ferrell-Val-Kilmer/id/4289209639

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Every CA that I fly with is going to stay to 65. They do not want to but when you look at the economics of it, guess what it is stupid to leave when you are getting 14% in a DC plan.

The way that I see it, the NWA guys have been arguing their retirements form the wrong perspective. The have been doing so with out the merged company's PWA. Not SLI but the money side of it. They are correct in stating that most guys would not stay for 2K more a month, but is that the case?
If you are looking at a frozen DB plan, yes, but what you fail to consider is the improved work rules and DC plan that would have been a 14%. 14% of a 400's CA pay is a lot of dough for five year. A little public Math...
Assume 200 a hr for a 400 CA.
Year 1 200 + 7% initial raise= 214 per hr. 80 hrs credit a month(this is conservative) 17120 per month.
14% of this is 2396.8 per month for 28761.6 a year
Now add years 2-4 of the PWA

Year 2 222.56 per hr =17804.8 per mo
DC 29915.01 per year in the plan

Year 3 231.47 per hr for 18516.99 per mo
DC 31108.54 per year in to the plan

Year 4 240.73 per hr= 19258.31 per mo
DC 32353.95 per year in the plan

Now add all of that extra money together on top of the huge raise that they get from the new PWA. What do you get
Over 122K in their DC plan on top of the raise.
Simply enough that is enough to put a kid through school, or add a lot to your frozen DB. I would do it and so would they. As we all know money talks and 50K a year in retirement and raises is noting to scoff at.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yeah, but that's real easy to do.....Just hook up the trailer to the old f150 and drive it to whatever trailer park you want to!:laugh: :laugh:

737

:laugh:

ACL65: Your public math is correct. Total pay and benefits would put it somewhere around 1.6 to 1.7 million in career earnings to stay to 65.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I know I just do not think that many of us are looking at this from a money perspective.
Money is what we all talk about. Most will stay. This does not even include the pay out. Gosh think if the DC was higher or we got another pay raise before some of these guys left. We are talking about a first or second year FO's salary difference.

 

[N2264J]

Nobody at DL would/should allow anything like that to happen. We're different companies but we're all ALPA.

Yeah, that's what Comair and ASA said.

That would set a terrible precedent and would divide ALPA for years.

That horse has already left the barn, buddy.

Look, management knows ALPA has no integrity on alter ego so they're going to play this out to its logical conclusion. That the mainliners fed the "regional" pilots to the alligators for contract enhancements only meant that they, the mainliners, would be eaten last.

Come to think of it, maybe this is why ALPA has recently feigned "outrage" at the prospect of alter egos at non ALPA carriers in Europe...sending signals to management about where ALPA draws the line.

I got news for ya - that line is for sale.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

I know pilot's are great for saying one thing, and doing another...but...

Every older guy that I have flown with in the last 3 or 4 months has said, merger or no merger, that they're gone by 60 at the very latest. Most are looking to bail early.

Some have said that they might stick around long enough for any equity payout (if any), but after that, they're done. Most of these guys have their mil retirement, a frozen DB and a bit of DC plan. Most have something going on the side.

Mind you, this all comes from mostly ex-military narrowbody guys that are 58-59. Even if they stick around, they aren't every going to see a widebody. Truth be told, there just isn't that "gosh, I'm a XXX pilot, and damn proud to be one" here at NWA to keep people around, and most are pretty happy to put this place in their rear view.

I will grant you that there are a select number of widebody guys, who belong to, ahem, a particular crimson subset of NWA pilots, that have ZERO life outside of the airline. They will fly until 65, then no doubt sue to change it to 70.

But these guys are in the minority. The stats still show that most NWA guys are leaving at 60 or earlier. These numbers WILL probably decrease while people look for the equity payday (if any), and then the numbers will pick up again.

Nu

 

[~~~^~~~]

Nu Guy:

Just ain't true. Those guys have 1.5 million reasons to stay. They might be telling you what they think you want to hear, or talking tough, but they are not going anywhere as long as they can remember the second to last line on the eye chart.

Just so you can't say "every" any more... I plan on flying to age 65. Don't really want to, but I know I'm too much of whore to walk away from 1.5 to 1.7 million based on pride, or concern for my junior pilots. It isn't pretty, but that is the way it is. 67 of 68 Delta pilots remained on this year.

~~~^~~~

 

[get2flyin]

Heyas,

I know pilot's are great for saying one thing, and doing another...but...

Every older guy that I have flown with in the last 3 or 4 months has said, merger or no merger, that they're gone by 60 at the very latest. Most are looking to bail early.

Nu

Ask them again when they are 64.5 and you're still throwing gear for them...

 

[Noserider76]

Yeah, that's what Comair and ASA said.



That horse has already left the barn, buddy.

Look, management knows ALPA has no integrity on alter ego so they're going to play this out to its logical conclusion. That the mainliners fed the "regional" pilots to the alligators for contract enhancements only meant that they, the mainliners, would be eaten last.

Come to think of it, maybe this is why ALPA has recently feigned "outrage" at the prospect of alter egos at non ALPA carriers in Europe...sending signals to management about where ALPA draws the line.

I got news for ya - that line is for sale.

The only thing I saw is a windfall of pilot jobs for the regionals. About 3000 from DL alone. We can do it together or we can do it alone but one way or another those jobs need to start coming back to the mainline.

 

[Fly4hire]

Nu Guy:

Just ain't true. Those guys have 1.5 million reasons to stay.

Not for most of the senior NW pilots - they have a frozen pension they cannot touch while they are working past 60. Those that do have an excess in a lump sum can't touch that either. For most of these their pension was based on the pre-concession 60% FAE. IOW many of these losers are working full time for less than $500 a month when they could be retired collecting almost as much or doing the expat thing for a few years and doubling their income.

 

[DAL737FO]

Not for most of the senior NW pilots - they have a frozen pension they cannot touch while they are working past 60. Those that do have an excess in a lump sum can't touch that either. For most of these their pension was based on the pre-concession 60% FAE. IOW many of these losers are working full time for less than $500 a month when they could be retired collecting almost as much or doing the expat thing for a few years and doubling their income.

Here is the rub, How do you know that they will retire? You don't. It used to be simple...age 60 retire. Now you have to use age 65 because that is the mandatory retirement age. Believe it or not there are some guys out there that define their life by this job.

 

[DTW320]

Not for most of the senior NW pilots - they have a frozen pension they cannot touch while they are working past 60. Those that do have an excess in a lump sum can't touch that either. For most of these their pension was based on the pre-concession 60% FAE. IOW many of these losers are working full time for less than $500 a month when they could be retired collecting almost as much or doing the expat thing for a few years and doubling their income.

Don't forget that the lump sum payable from the excess plan decreases every year they work past 60 and would be zero by 65. Lots of things to factor in that have not been mentioned here.

 

[FBN0223]

. Believe it or not there are some guys out there that define their life by this job.

Unfortunately, there are more than most of us would like to think.

 

[gutshotdraw]

That's why a friend of mine punched out of the Red Tail 757 left seat at 58. He did the math and figured out that after commuting expenses, crash pad, union dues, etc. etc. he was LOSING $200 a month by going to work. Papers went in the next day. Many pilots are more mathmatically challenged which explains why the fossils keep flying.

 

[NuGuy]

Ask them again when they are 64.5 and you're still throwing gear for them...

Heyas,

Can't do it...they're still leaving. Out of 109 since January, 89 have decided to leave...almost all of them at 60 or earlier. A couple were 61, but they were ropes.

Only 20 have decided to work past 60.

The DAL guys might be sticking around, but a large majority of NWA guys are going out on time or earlier, principally due to what was mentioned above with the excess plan and lump sum. A LOT of guys are taking the money and splitting.

If there is any equity payout from a merger, even more will leave.

Nu

 

[clippyrip]

If there is any equity payout from a merger, even more will leave.

Yep! A bunch of guys are sticking around to see if there is a payout. If there is none, you can be sure they will be gone shortly after. If there is one, they will be gone shortly after that.

There will always be a few that fly to 65, some live for this job, but that is not the majority.

I am excited to become the Uber airline as long as there are no furloughs.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The question is would they still leave if they were getting the money that I outlines above. I do not think so. That would more than make up for their pain of having to come to work.

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

I am excited to become the Uber airline as long as there are no furloughs.

"Uber airline?" Who are you, der Fuhrer? or just some tool loaded on red kool-aid trying to act like der Fuhrer?

The fact is, guys you counted on retiring at 60, haven't. Hiring you counted on, stopped. Planes you said wouldn't be parked, are.

Oh, wait...they're "spares." My bad.

How are your "career expectations" looking to an arbitrator these days?

I'll bet you a sawbuck the 787 will be delayed again, so don't even bother responding with that.

p.s. there will be furloughs. you know it, and I know it.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Possible, but not probable. That is even coming from my union rep. It is a real possibility but something that would only occur is a few more fence posts are met in the economy. To date we are no where near them. So chill out.

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

Possible, but not probable. That is even coming from my union rep. It is a real possibility but something that would only occur is a few more fence posts are met in the economy. To date we are no where near them. So chill out.

you appear to be extremely knowledgeable in Delta's operations, far more than I am. After reading many threads here, I respect your posts greatly.

Having said that, your opinions are nothing more than speculations, same as mine.

My opinion is that it will be impossible for the airlines to realize any "synergy" minus a lot of labor cost cutting, including from the pilots.

Delta and NWA can't absorb the current price of oil. Delta is slightly better postitioned with its increasing international emphasis, but not by much, and not enough.

The money men can't cash in without furloughs.

 

[clippyrip]

"Uber airline?" Who are you, der Fuhrer? or just some tool loaded on red kool-aid trying to act like der Fuhrer?

The fact is, guys you counted on retiring at 60, haven't. Hiring you counted on, stopped. Planes you said wouldn't be parked, are.

Oh, wait...they're "spares." My bad.

How are your "career expectations" looking to an arbitrator these days?

I'll bet you a sawbuck the 787 will be delayed again, so don't even bother responding with that.

p.s. there will be furloughs. you know it, and I know it.

You sure are cool...

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

You sure are cool...

good comeback.

but it won't help in arbitration.

 

[737 Pylt]

good comeback.

but it won't help in arbitration.

You've been here a whole month, and you sound a lot like a guy that got banned.....Maybe, just maybe you're jke406.....Again??

737