NWA/DAL Merger may go ahead dispite pilots

[Noserider76]

And no, I'm not picking a fight. I'm doing the electronic equivalent of picking my nose, to see what goobers come out. Thanks for playing...

Nu

Sorry you're so angry, man. And I'm sorry you can't make a point without name calling. Really shows how weak your arguments are.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Ahhh, the quintessential DAL pilot....blissfully unaware of his own arrogance. Thank you for so elegantly displaying the stereotype.



No need at all. But if IS going to happen, it's nice to have a choice of dance partners.



Oh, yea, you mean the one where we take all the top spots, fence the 744s AND staple 3000 DAL guys to the bottom of the list...the one that was LEAKED to the papers. Puh-lease, use your head...does that even pass the sniff check?

Just about every NWA guy here says that's not true (but don't take our word for it), yet your own people ADMIT that your team went not to negotiate, but to dictate the SLI (um, if you're sent to negotiate without any room to negotiate, that's dictating). Sorry, but that's NOT how it works in the real world.

And no, I'm not picking a fight. I'm doing the electronic equivalent of picking my nose, to see what goobers come out. Thanks for playing...

Nu

NU,

You get on here spewing arrogance by baiting the same behavior you say you wanted to avoid.....

NOBODY on here knows WTF is being done behind closed doors.... but leaks are flying out....

I will say this, Delta has NO Red list, green list, blue list divisions in the pilot ranks and to quote Donald Sutherland in JFK "Follow the money,son...." There are some serious initiatives by those who feel wronged by said lists and have differing opinions on how this thing goes down and may be trying to influence or scuttle the deal. If it's arrogant for the Delta people to be unified on SLI, then so be it.

Nobody over here is cheering for this thing, and IMHO I hope it doesn't happen.....the toxic mess already being spewed around your company will plague the merged mess that is to come......Arrogant??? Maybe, but at least I can look around my pilot lounge knowing that the only people trying to screw me is management, not my fellow pilots on a day-to day basis......

 

[Diesel-9]

Think we know who wanted to staple who. Real southern hospitality. But, why is anyone getting so excited over what was an opener in a contract negotiation. Problem is this may happen anyway because of the big money and end up in arbitration.

 

[~~~^~~~]

And thus, yet again, the famed DAL arrogance is displayed. Nu

Nu,

The man made a statement of fact and you start throwing names around.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Think we know who wanted to staple who. Real southern hospitality. But, why is anyone getting so excited over what was an opener in a contract negotiation. Problem is this may happen anyway because of the big money and end up in arbitration.

Diesel, you could not be more wrong.

First, the Delta position was relative seniority, which would have put DAL new hires at the bottom. Hardly a staple.

Second, arbitration is not an option. We do not get the benefits of reaching a deal if no deal is reached.

Third, it was not an "opener." This is not Section 6 negotiations.

 

[hateairlines]

With the new merger law recently passed why would management care about a pilot seniority agreement or any other employee group for that matter? It will be sent to a mediation anyway.

 

[Diesel-9]

I heard otherwise on each proposal and someone used the media to send a different view. I certainly hope arbitration is not the end result but is more probable than not unfortunately. Probably more because it will be voted down by membership even after a fairly equitable agreement will probably be reached.

 

[FDJ2]

I heard otherwise on each proposal and someone used the media to send a different view. I certainly hope arbitration is not the end result.

The DAL position was and is relative seniority. Do you have a problem with that?

This was not intended to be an "opener" where you posture for advantage over your fellow pilots. Unfortunately that has been the history of the NWA merger committee since the Republic merger. How many arbitrations has that committee gone into? How many negotiated agreements in the same time period?

As far as the "leaks" go, the only comm committee spokesman making statements in the papers has been from NWA.

I'm sure some of the management types might be leaking info to try to spur negotiations along as well.

 

[FDJ2]

With the new merger law recently passed why would management care about a pilot seniority agreement or any other employee group for that matter? It will be sent to a mediation anyway.

That's not the new merger law. The new merger law established a base level of protection for airline employees who do not have contractual merger protection language, otherwise know as the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protection Provisions (A-M).

A-M, provides a process for integration which includes negotiation, mediation if need be and finally binding arbitration if ther is no negotiated result.

Both NWA and ALPA have contractual language, ALPA merger policy, which provides a more structured process than A-M, but is very similar in that it also contains negotiations, mediation and arbitration.

DAL and NWA have not announced a merger, so both A-M and ALPA policy are premature. Also, ALPA merger policy allows 2 or more pilot groups to engage in and reach an agreement without invoking the policy.

Richard Anderson received permission from the Board of Directors to explore a possible merger with NWA if the pilot labor issues could be resolved up front.

Why? Quite simply because labor strife, particularly among pilots can drive the value out of the merger and if the pilots don't support a merger they can create road blocks to a successful merger by exercising contractual rights and raising regulatory concerns.

The end result of all of this is a process which contains 4 elements. All four must be in place prior to any merger announcement. Their must be a transition agreement, a joint contract, an equity stake for the pilots and a mutually agreed upon seniority list.

All elements are in place and awaiting ratification except for the seniority list. No seniority list agreement, no transaction agreement, no merger, at least this time.

 

[Redmeat]

Steenland issued a company email to employees yesterday stating consolidation is inevitable.

With oil at $106 a barrel he states that the 2008 fuel expenditures will be $1.5 BILLION more than was expected when we exited BK.

(I'm sure Delta is in the same boat). Can you say kiss expansion goodbye without a merger?

He also addressed concerns about the frozen pension plans and states the plans would stay intact in the new merged company no matter who the dancing partner ends up being.