NWA/DAL Merger may go ahead dispite pilots

[hateairlines]

With the new merger law recently passed why would management care about a pilot seniority agreement or any other employee group for that matter? It will be sent to a mediation anyway.

 

[Diesel-9]

I heard otherwise on each proposal and someone used the media to send a different view. I certainly hope arbitration is not the end result but is more probable than not unfortunately. Probably more because it will be voted down by membership even after a fairly equitable agreement will probably be reached.

 

[FDJ2]

I heard otherwise on each proposal and someone used the media to send a different view. I certainly hope arbitration is not the end result.

The DAL position was and is relative seniority. Do you have a problem with that?

This was not intended to be an "opener" where you posture for advantage over your fellow pilots. Unfortunately that has been the history of the NWA merger committee since the Republic merger. How many arbitrations has that committee gone into? How many negotiated agreements in the same time period?

As far as the "leaks" go, the only comm committee spokesman making statements in the papers has been from NWA.

I'm sure some of the management types might be leaking info to try to spur negotiations along as well.

 

[FDJ2]

With the new merger law recently passed why would management care about a pilot seniority agreement or any other employee group for that matter? It will be sent to a mediation anyway.

That's not the new merger law. The new merger law established a base level of protection for airline employees who do not have contractual merger protection language, otherwise know as the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protection Provisions (A-M).

A-M, provides a process for integration which includes negotiation, mediation if need be and finally binding arbitration if ther is no negotiated result.

Both NWA and ALPA have contractual language, ALPA merger policy, which provides a more structured process than A-M, but is very similar in that it also contains negotiations, mediation and arbitration.

DAL and NWA have not announced a merger, so both A-M and ALPA policy are premature. Also, ALPA merger policy allows 2 or more pilot groups to engage in and reach an agreement without invoking the policy.

Richard Anderson received permission from the Board of Directors to explore a possible merger with NWA if the pilot labor issues could be resolved up front.

Why? Quite simply because labor strife, particularly among pilots can drive the value out of the merger and if the pilots don't support a merger they can create road blocks to a successful merger by exercising contractual rights and raising regulatory concerns.

The end result of all of this is a process which contains 4 elements. All four must be in place prior to any merger announcement. Their must be a transition agreement, a joint contract, an equity stake for the pilots and a mutually agreed upon seniority list.

All elements are in place and awaiting ratification except for the seniority list. No seniority list agreement, no transaction agreement, no merger, at least this time.

 

[Redmeat]

Steenland issued a company email to employees yesterday stating consolidation is inevitable.

With oil at $106 a barrel he states that the 2008 fuel expenditures will be $1.5 BILLION more than was expected when we exited BK.

(I'm sure Delta is in the same boat). Can you say kiss expansion goodbye without a merger?

He also addressed concerns about the frozen pension plans and states the plans would stay intact in the new merged company no matter who the dancing partner ends up being.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I think this is another attempt to put fear in us. IE better start moving.
I think this deal will get done. Probably sooner than later.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

NWA's merger committee is incapable of acting.

NWA is forcing arbitration. The deal will proceed without NWA input in anyway other than towards the arbitrator.

The Cobra Unit doesn't know how to play well with others.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

I am curious why the dal pilots on this board keep saying this. Since I have been at nwa(95 hire) our leadership have always, and I mean always been the "we must be rational, realistic etc" types. I think one might call it "managing expections" ie. don't expect much and you won't be disappointed. We are not the Cobraair of lore. We have been told nothing, I mean nothing official. However, if your leadership is telling you that our merger comm. is actually taking a stand and volunteering for arbitration (keep in mind 6 months ago or so that we needed to avoid arbitration at all costs) that tells me that the integration method is one sided. Again we have been told nothing official, other than we are talking to multiple parties. Not even mentioning specific airlines. I hope that the majority of nwa/dal pilots are not representative of the flamers from both sides on this website, otherwise it will be a miserable place to work.

NWA's merger committee is incapable of acting.

NWA is forcing arbitration. The deal will proceed without NWA input in anyway other than towards the arbitrator.

The Cobra Unit doesn't know how to play well with others.

 

[Diesel-9]

Well said.

 

[JAM-BRO]

Well said Cobra

I think we need to get over the "who's better", "mine's longer", yadah, yadah, yadah. It is all wasted energy. NWA and DAL are staffed by over 11,000 proffesional pilots. Both airlines will make huge contributions to the proposed merger.There is great potential here. I hope this deal works out. This could be the airline every pilot would love to work at. Too bad if it doesn't. We should all act more proffesional and stop all the mud-slinging and name calling. I for one, will not do it any longer.

Good luck to all of us.

I am curious why the dal pilots on this board keep saying this. Since I have been at nwa(95 hire) our leadership have always, and I mean always been the "we must be rational, realistic etc" types. I think one might call it "managing expections" ie. don't expect much and you won't be disappointed. We are not the Cobraair of lore. We have been told nothing, I mean nothing official. However, if your leadership is telling you that our merger comm. is actually taking a stand and volunteering for arbitration (keep in mind 6 months ago or so that we needed to avoid arbitration at all costs) that tells me that the integration method is one sided. Again we have been told nothing official, other than we are talking to multiple parties. Not even mentioning specific airlines. I hope that the majority of nwa/dal pilots are not representative of the flamers from both sides on this website, otherwise it will be a miserable place to work.

 

[Hutchman]

Can you say kiss expansion goodbye without a merger?

Is that an oxymoron? Merge to expand? Cost savings is only realized by decreasing the size. If you think a combined carrier would be bigger you are not very smart. Mergers = Job losses.

 

[General Lee]

And thus, yet again, the famed DAL arrogance is displayed.

The truth is that the NWA guys have NOTHING to lose other than an abortion of a SLI, crippled career advancement, some cheap trinkets and a career full of obnoxious us vs them mentality.

Pardon me if I don't get all weepy at losing the chance to get displaced to NYC or ATL.

Your management is more than welcome to walk way. You let yourselves in, you can let yourselves out. We have other guests, but it looks like your "ride" (IE moneymen) might be getting ansy. You might be stuck here.

But assuming this deal is forced upon us, the SLI will be arbitrated, and a new contract negotiated in section 6.

After talking with our guys, an arbitration, which was off the table, is looking like a far better option than the ridiculous "generous offer" from your side.

Taking a chance with an arbitration? Sure...but considering the DAL table postion, and the relative strengths/size/fleets/staffing/stock swap of the two airlines, it's a good bet we can do better.

Unless, of course, you guys don't like the arbitration results...but the good thing is that you'll already have a roadmap of how to "fix" that.

Nu

Get displaced to ATL? Really? Most of the junior guys here think they could be displaced to Detoilet. So, how could you be displaced to NYC? You guys keep saying the DC9s will be around forever, so why would you be worrying? A displacement occurs when a base closes or an aircraft fleet is parked and people rebid. You and Occam say that won't happen with your DC9s. So, you have nothing to worry about. I think we have about 6 total people who might want to go to MSP or DTW.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Is that an oxymoron? Merge to expand? Cost savings is only realized by decreasing the size. If you think a combined carrier would be bigger you are not very smart. Mergers = Job losses.

Mergers do NOT equal job losses if you have to make deals with politicians to get mergers approved.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I am curious why the dal pilots on this board keep saying this. Since I have been at nwa(95 hire) our leadership have always, and I mean always been the "we must be rational, realistic etc" types. I think one might call it "managing expections" ie. don't expect much and you won't be disappointed. We are not the Cobraair of lore. We have been told nothing, I mean nothing official. However, if your leadership is telling you that our merger comm. is actually taking a stand and volunteering for arbitration (keep in mind 6 months ago or so that we needed to avoid arbitration at all costs) that tells me that the integration method is one sided. Again we have been told nothing official, other than we are talking to multiple parties. Not even mentioning specific airlines. I hope that the majority of nwa/dal pilots are not representative of the flamers from both sides on this website, otherwise it will be a miserable place to work.

Well, since our group is larger than yours, do you expect 1 for 1? That would leave the bottom 2500 guys all Delta. That doesn't make sense either. Like sized airlines might be easier to merge, but ours is a lot bigger, and the bottom guy at NWA cannot be 2500 numbers up the combined list. You have to be realistic here.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Klamath]

Get displaced to ATL? Really? Most of the junior guys here think they could be displaced to Detoilet. So, how could you be displaced to NYC? You guys keep saying the DC9s will be around forever, so why would you be worrying? A displacement occurs when a base closes or an aircraft fleet is parked and people rebid. You and Occam say that won't happen with your DC9s. So, you have nothing to worry about. I think we have about 6 total people who might want to go to MSP or DTW.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You are tiresome.