NWA/DAL Merger may go ahead dispite pilots

[Superpilot92]

Is it over yet?:nuts:

 

[Jabwmu]

This is probably a dumb question, but what does "SLI" mean or stand for?

-Thanks

 

[Superpilot92]

i understand it as Seniority List Integration

 

[DTW320]

Average lines are 85 hours, is that something to be proud of?

We can also consider DAL green slips and inverse asignments, where does it end?

Regardless, I'm not the one who wanted to interject pay rates of second officers into the discussion. Anyway you cut it DAL pilots would fair much better if the integration were based on pay rates than if it were based on what positions were brought to the merger. What positions are brought to the merger is probably a good compromise. Start with wide bodied captains and end with second officers.

Where did "pride in contract" enter this discussion?(BTW, over 80 premium pay is based on "credit" time which can include a lot of things besides block time and is not dependent on some "green slip" trip coming available or not)

You're as bad as Generally about staying on topic. Luckily none of this has any relation to merger reality. ALPA merger policy doesn't factor in the things we have been tossing around. It DOES however factor in attrition and an arbitrator would have to consider that as a primary consideration. Why do you think you DAL guys are so afraid of arbitration?

 

[jke406]

And thus, yet again, the famed DAL arrogance is displayed.

The truth is that the NWA guys have NOTHING to lose other than an abortion of a SLI, crippled career advancement, some cheap trinkets and a career full of obnoxious us vs them mentality.

Pardon me if I don't get all weepy at losing the chance to get displaced to NYC or ATL.

Your management is more than welcome to walk way. You let yourselves in, you can let yourselves out. We have other guests, but it looks like your "ride" (IE moneymen) might be getting ansy. You might be stuck here.

But assuming this deal is forced upon us, the SLI will be arbitrated, and a new contract negotiated in section 6.

After talking with our guys, an arbitration, which was off the table, is looking like a far better option than the ridiculous "generous offer" from your side.

Taking a chance with an arbitration? Sure...but considering the DAL table postion, and the relative strengths/size/fleets/staffing/stock swap of the two airlines, it's a good bet we can do better.

Unless, of course, you guys don't like the arbitration results...but the good thing is that you'll already have a roadmap of how to "fix" that.

Nu

The only example of arrogance on this thread has come from you.

Do you honestly think you are going to get a better deal from arbitration or merging with another carrier, than the delta guys are offering you right now? They're giving away the store to you guys.

But feel free to sit back and stir the pot with your passive-aggressive posting. You will be kicking yourself about letting this one pass you by.

Delta guys should hope all NWA guys are as arrogant as you are. They're far better off without a merger than NWA will be.

 

[General Lee]

Where did "pride in contract" enter this discussion?(BTW, over 80 premium pay is based on "credit" time which can include a lot of things besides block time and is not dependent on some "green slip" trip coming available or not)

You're as bad as Generally about staying on topic. Luckily none of this has any relation to merger reality. ALPA merger policy doesn't factor in the things we have been tossing around. It DOES however factor in attrition and an arbitrator would have to consider that as a primary consideration. Why do you think you DAL guys are so afraid of arbitration?

Why can't you guys negotiate anything? Not ready? That is the key. You are busy fighting with yourselves. Arbitration may the way to go since you guys are so full of yourselves and have expressed entitlement wishes not seen since the Easties at USAir. Simply put, you can't negotiate, period. How many guys did you have in the merger committee negotiating room again? 15? That speaks volumes.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

It DOES however factor in attrition and an arbitrator would have to consider that as a primary consideration. Why do you think you DAL guys are so afraid of arbitration?

You're mistaken if you think the DAL pilots are afraid of arbitration. Arbitration if you haven't noticed is not on the table. If you're strategy is arbitration there is no transaction agreement, no contract improvements to bring you up to DAL standards and beyond and no merger. At least no merger this time.

You might get the opportunity for arbitration in some other merger down the road, maybe with us, maybe with someone else.

Attrition is part of ALPA merger policy? That's a new one. Attrition 5 years from now, 10, years from now, 30 years from now? What role did it play in the AAA/AWA arbitration. When was the last time it was considered and what were the parameters?

Pay, status and aircraft are often considered part of your career expectation and without a doubt DAL has it all over on NWA in those categories. Pay is better in every category, more wide bodied aircraft and more aircraft orders. How many aircraft is NWA parking in the next 24 months, how many aircraft is DAL receiving? NWA has orders on 18 787s, when are they scheduled to be delivered? Is the 787 certified for part 121 operations?

Maybe this will work, probably not. My guess is that we'll go our seperate ways, at least for now, but I wouldn't be surprised if we revisit this issue again, only the next time there wont be an opportunity for us to have an input and get a piece of the equity and address our contract issues upfront. What a pity.

 

[NuGuy]

You're mistaken if you think the DAL pilots are afraid of arbitration. Arbitration if you haven't noticed is not on the table. If you're strategy is arbitration there is no transaction agreement, no contract improvements to bring you up to DAL standards and beyond and no merger. At least no merger this time.

Judging from the WSJ article, that's not my call, your call, or even Anderson's call. The latest indications we've been getting is that this deal is going through with or without the pilot's input, and this weeks meetings are the end of the line for anything "voluntary" to be hammered out.

After that, it'll be management doing the hammering.

The money men will get paid. We're only along for the ride.

Nu

 

[nwaredtail]

. Simply put, you can't negotiate, period. How many guys did you have in the merger committee negotiating room again? 15? That speaks volumes.

In a robot type voice....

My name is the General, I believe every rumor I hear. I post it as truth on flightinfo.com. Delta is great, NWA sucks, my name is the General....


The fact that you think this "delay" is remotely linked to the SLI is laughable. Think lobbyist, regulators, CAL golden share, and then maybe you will get the big picture, you Frickin dumb$hit.