NWA & DAL BOTH proposing Pilot Mergers??

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I saw this link on www.aptap.org. Apparently, NWA ALPA is proposing merging NWA w/ Pinnacle and Mesaba pilot groups.

http://www.airlinkpilots.com/docs/SingleSenListDraft.PDF

It sounds very similar to the DAL/Comair/ASA proposal, and the AA/AEagle proposal.

Before 9.11 a number of regional (and some mainline) pilots were proposing plans like these. I guess since the airline's economic situations have changed, mainline pilots are much more receptive since 9.11.

What about the other airlines with feeders, like UAL, Continental, USAir and ATA? (and now AirTran). Will they be doing something similar?

What are your ideas/comments?

PS-In the future I hope to be able to get a mainline (or fractional job).

Cliff
GRB

 

[mckpickle]

Coex has been trying this for about 2-3 years however there are many very vocal SCABS at CAL and they are trying to separate our union. To do this they need to get rid of the "EXPRESS CHILDREN". Otherwise they will not have the voting majority in the union to do so. Stay tuned as this will get interesting.

As far as the others go, good luck and all the best. I wish you luck!

Just shows how things can work when you dont have a ton of SCABS screwing things up.

 

[stick-n-rudder]

US Airways pilots approved as part of the restucturing concessionary contract "ONE SENIORITY" list for mainline/MidAtlantic and WholeyOwned Express carriers(ALG,PDT,PSA). The deal is still in conference as to how to accomplish the intigration of the W/O. The W/O Express pilots will have a Date-of-hire seniority number. As MidAtlantic will first hire all mainline fourloughed pilots then W/O Express pilots. Mainline and MidAtlantic "will not hire pilots off the street". So if all works out and US Airways is still around the only way to get a job is through the Express W/O and then move through the system to mainline.

 

[stick-n-rudder]

I just read the NWA ALPA proposal and it sounds even better than the US proposal in that it restricts any jet flying to NWA Pilots on a merged seniority list. Essentially restricting non-WholeyOwned code share which in my humble opinion is good. It keeps the likes of Jonathan Oreistein out of the picture!

 

[Rank&File]

originally posted by atpcliff
What about the other airlines with feeders, like UAL, Continental, USAir and ATA?

Continental and Continental Express have been doing this since the pilots re-organized in 1995 under the Independant Association of Continental Pilots (IACP). When CAL and CALEX merged with ALPA two years ago, the MEC was to be a "model" for other carriers to eventually consider a simular structure. CAL, with 5,000 pilots and CALEX with 2,000 pilots are represented equally on the MEC. Some CAL pilots are really irked by this because CALEX reps can vote on issues that concern CAL pilots only, and vice-versa. A motion has been on the table for quite some time to separate the MEC. The single MEC has its pros and cons, with the pros outweighing the cons, IMO. I hope the MECs that are considering this move consult with CAL ALPA first.

 

[stick-n-rudder]

I may be confused so correct me if I'm wrong. Co mainline was hiriing off the street even with the ALPA agreement and putting these pilots in front of COEX pilots in seniority at mainline CO?
The CO/COEX aggreement did not limit off the street hiring by mainline CO infront of COEX pilots?

As was American vs. American Eagle?

US Mainline and MIdAtlantic under the terms of the contract cannot! Mainline US and MidAtlantic USEx must take in seniority order(I'm assuming the final out come will be a merged by date of hire ALG,PDT,PSA seniority list) "first". NO off the street hiring by mainline or MidAtlantic infront off the W/O pilots from ALG,PDT, and PSA. That is significantly different I think?

I appriciate your reply and clarification.

 

[Prop Trash]

originally posted by stick-n-rudder
Co mainline was hiriing off the street even with the ALPA agreement and putting these pilots in front of COEX pilots in seniority at mainline CO? The CO/COEX aggreement did not limit off the street hiring by mainline CO infront of COEX pilots?

By contract, one third of a new hire class at CAL has to be filled with pilots from CALEX. The CALEX pilots, when transitioning to CAL, are automatically senior to the off the street new hires in each class. When CAL furloghed, those who could no longer hold a position at mainline were placed on the CALEX seniority list by thier date of hire at CAL, meaning some off the street CAL pilots became senior to pilots hired at CALEX. The pilots who originally came from CALEX retainend their original date of hire. Some OTS CAL pilots could not hold positions at CLAEX and were furlouhged "to the street." Clear as mud?

 

[Publishers]

Smoke

Someone is blowing smoke here somewhere.

There is a good chance that Pinnacle and Coex plus the others will have no relationship with the parent in two years. In the case of Pinnacle and COEX, it has been stated by NWA and Continental that they intend to own no part of these and all guarantees of flying or relationships can well be gone in two years.

 

[mckpickle]

Hey at this point if CAL wants to say screw then I think we should. We(coex) account for a very large part of the CAL operation. I feel as they will bastardize us however it is very unlikely that we will not be a part of CAL for a long time to come. Unless CHQ,PSA, Commutair or Gulfstream, can aquire, 300 jets, train 1500 pilots and get all the logistics to go with it. Gordon is pulling the old ENRON deal here. 5000+employees, 400 million in debt, and no assets. And they still hold controll over our every operation.


We will have CAL colors on the planes for some time to come we just might be joined by a few "others" who want to play the game.

 

[cl-65link]

With regards to NW ownership of Pinnacle and Mesaba, Northwest still owns approximately 30% of Mesaba stock and when an IPO is put forth for Pinnacle, they will probably keep the same amount invested in Pinnacle. If you read the SEC filing, they propose to have 2-3 seats on the BOD occupied by current NW management. There is no doubt that Pinnacle will be tied, however directly or indirectly, to NW for the foreseeable future.