NWA Chp. 11

[Crzipilot]

CNBC is saying that NWA filed for Chp. 11 about 30 minutes after delta did....

Interesting times....

 

[General Lee]

And NW's stock was near $2.00, and they had more money in the bank. I can see a merger in the works.......The name? DELWEST.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[cfm56-7b]

Dont blame this on NWA mechanics blame it on bad management...

 

[jws717]

the blood is gona flow around the dal system, from what i hear cuts are gona be fast and furious. Sucks for all of us at DAL and Comair. keep strong brothers!

 

[Crzipilot]

If you look at NWA stock....it closed at 1.87 today at closing....after hours it's gone to 2.04........somebody lost some money or something.....strange it would jump up..

 

[nellie2110]

I hope there is no merger. Delta has no money and nothing to offer. That would lead to delta getting the shaft on everything. More like NORDEL Airlines.

 

[satpak77]

after hours quotes

stocks were halted for awhile

now

NWAC - 0.84 cents

DAL - 0.70 cents

if they merge, who is "rescuing" the other, ala AA/TWA?

NWAC got started in 1926

Delta in 1928

 

[Benhuntn]

Welcome to NoWelta....the low cost virtual airlines with no takeoffs or landings....

 

[rudderdog]

I hope there is no merger.

It would be bad for both DAL and NWA. Really, it would. Look at it this way, both are bankrupt with a ton of debt. Neither pilot group has any "career expectations" to speak of. So, as it goes, both pilot groups would be "stapled" to the bottom of the other. Nobody would ever really know where their seniority lies as the list would a vicious cirlcle. Talk about a crew scheduling nightmare.

Seriously though, good luck to all.

 

[se1776]

thanks to the union

 

[DDpaysoff]

If you look at NWA stock....it closed at 1.87 today at closing....after hours it's gone to 2.04........somebody lost some money or something.....strange it would jump up..

It's called a dead cat bounce. Don't be surprised to see Delta trade at 1.6 again within a week or so. It usually takes several weeks to be delisted. And the shorts, which are many, must cover to cash in profits. NWAC, was more of a surprise filing, since DAL had a higher short interest they will get a stronger bounce, imo.

 

[General Lee]

I hope there is no merger. Delta has no money and nothing to offer. That would lead to delta getting the shaft on everything. More like NORDEL Airlines.

Nothing to offer, eh? How about only one union? How about the busiest hub in the world that handles the most passengers? How about more routes to Europe and South America? How about a West Coast hub---in SLC? How about more RJs than anyone else? Oh, that part is not very great.....Nordel it is.(hurry up and copywrite that...)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Sprint100]

Pretty soon the whole Major Forum will be gone......................

 

[General Lee]

It would be bad for both DAL and NWA. Really, it would. Look at it this way, both are bankrupt with a ton of debt. Neither pilot group has any "career expectations" to speak of. So, as it goes, both pilot groups would be "stapled" to the bottom of the other. Nobody would ever really know where their seniority lies as the list would a vicious cirlcle. Talk about a crew scheduling nightmare.

Seriously though, good luck to all.

Hello? Most of the debt would be restructured, and the employee groups would get close to the same pay. The 100 seater is covered by the A319 at NW. NW brings Asia and the cargo unit, and Delta covers Europe and South America. Count on hub consolidation---adios to CVG and MEM IMO. The lower costs of getting rid of one of the managements and ground personel at each airport will save a lot of money.

And, what are you talking about both airline pilot groups getting stapled? Do you really know what you are talking about? Thanks to both going chap 11 on the same day, neither will win out with career expectations. And, don't expect DOH, since we just had the 2500 most senior guys retire in one year. We probably have only 300 or 400 pilots over 50 years old, out of 6500. NW didn't have the lump sum option, so they didn't retire a lot. It will be interesting if it happens, but there has to be a something brewing if both go on the same day....within 30 minutes...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[G4G5]

Forget the seniority intergration. Just ask the red guys about the green guy and then the blue guys. Now add Delta to the list.

NWA already has the biggest and longest fences in the industry (just ask the Hughes pilots who are still fenced off the 747). This will be the most pathetic bunch of fences you have ever seen. Their will be no benefits for the company when/if this list gets done.

 

[rudderdog]

Hello General? It was a bit of a joke...up until I said "seriously". Easy boy.

 

[General Lee]

Forget the seniority intergration. Just ask the red guys about the green guy and then the blue guys. Now add Delta to the list.

NWA already has the biggest and longest fences in the industry (just ask the Hughes pilots who are still fenced off the 747). This will be the most pathetic bunch of fences you have ever seen. Their will be no benefits for the company when/if this list gets done.

Fine with me. I will stick to Europe. As far as consolidation, it will happen. And, ALPA rules the roost, and since both went Chap 11 on the same day, no one group gets better expectations. I see it happening next year.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Hello General? It was a bit of a joke...up until I said "seriously". Easy boy.

Hey, I am still amazed we both filed. Crazy.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Redmeat]

Forget the seniority intergration. Just ask the red guys about the green guy and then the blue guys. Now add Delta to the list.

NWA already has the biggest and longest fences in the industry (just ask the Hughes pilots who are still fenced off the 747). This will be the most pathetic bunch of fences you have ever seen. Their will be no benefits for the company when/if this list gets done.

You just posted what I was thinking. Ask the Southern/Republic guys how merger/seniority integration works at NW.

 

[FreightNazi]

Pretty soon the whole Major Forum will be gone......................

To be replaced by UPS and FedEx! the only two remaining "real" majors.... You know.... big bucks, big equipment, big retirement, and companies as stable as you can get in private enterprise.

 

[General Lee]

You just posted what I was thinking. Ask the Southern/Republic guys how merger/seniority integration works at NW.

Were both Republic and NW in bankruptcy protection when they merged? NW had the upperhand. They don't now. Nobody does. ALPA will sort it out, with Duane Worthless as our future #1.........great.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

To be replaced by UPS and FedEx! the only two remaining "real" majors.... You know.... big bucks, big equipment, big retirement, and companies as stable as you can get in private enterprise.

Yeah, you guys are UNTOUCHABLE, until Cabotage comes in and Korean Air Cargo takes over for half price. John McCain will say it is "good for the consumer..." Your pants will turn BROWN quickly.......


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FreightNazi]

Yeah, you guys are UNTOUCHABLE, until Cabotage comes in and Korean Air Cargo takes over for half price. John McCain will say it is "good for the consumer..." Your pants will turn BROWN quickly.......


Bye Bye--General Lee

Actually, we WANT cabotage in the US. That will free us up to replace all the contractors UPS is forced to use around the world due to UPS not having the route authority to fly there with us. So it will be a big benefit to us to have full and free open skies.

 

[General Lee]

Actually, we WANT cabotage in the US. That will free us up to replace all the contractors UPS is forced to use around the world due to UPS not having the route authority to fly there with us. So it will be a big benefit to us to have full and free open skies.

Some other countries may not agree with that, but John McCain will make sure that the consumers have the best price and choice.......That is not good for you, since you would have to compete with the likes of Korean Air Cargo, which will undercut you because they pay their people krap. How is that good for you again? You lack lots of competition here in the States---only two others--and more around the world would love to undercut you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Redmeat]

To be replaced by UPS and FedEx! the only two remaining "real" majors.... You know.... big bucks, big equipment, big retirement, and companies as stable as you can get in private enterprise.

The "Airtran/Jetblue" version of overnight parcel service is probably in the works as we speak. Every great company eventually gets taken to its knee's by a new great company. Pan Am comes to mind. Your dog will have its day, probably in your lifetime. Save your money.

Are you that naive to think pilots will not do your job for less?

No offence Airtran/Jetblue guys.

 

[G4G5]

Fine with me. I will stick to Europe. As far as consolidation, it will happen. And, ALPA rules the roost, and since both went Chap 11 on the same day, no one group gets better expectations. I see it happening next year.


Bye Bye--General Lee

The problem becomes two fold.

First off career expectations do differ. NWA has 36 -747's with a pay rate of $232
They also have 15 A330's and 22-DC10's @$209. DAL has 8 -777 @ $216 21-767-400' @$204. The NWA guys will want a proportional rate of future wide body flying and fences on 747's. This is hwat they already have with the red, blue and green lists.

Secondly NWA has the most in efficient seniority list in the business and this really places a hamper on trying to increase any future intergrations. When I was there they actually had 6 divisions, per aircraft, per base, per seat. Example MEM DC9 Capt had Red, Blue and Green guys and then they had line guys and reserve guys with no intergration. They are also the only airline that still has 2 international captians on long haul flying, everyone else has gone to 1 capt. By the time they get done with their list and DAL's Green and yellow slips this will be the list of the century. Until then it would really be a scheduling nightmare. Then once the list is done it becomes a training nightmare. Before any efficiencies are ever achieved. You could eaisly be a capt on your JFK-Kiev route.

 

[General Lee]

The problem becomes two fold.

First off career expectations do differ. NWA has 36 -747's with a pay rate of $232
They also have 15 A330's and 22-DC10's @$209. DAL has 8 -777 @ $216 21-767-400' @$204. The NWA guys will want a proportional rate of future wide body flying and fences on 747's. This is hwat they already have with the red, blue and green lists.

Secondly NWA has the most in efficient seniority list in the business and this really places a hamper on trying to increase any future intergrations. When I was there they actually had 6 divisions, per aircraft, per base, per seat. Example MEM DC9 Capt had Red, Blue and Green guys and then they had line guys and reserve guys with no intergration. They are also the only airline that still has 2 international captians on long haul flying, everyone else has gone to 1 capt. By the time they get done with their list and DAL's Green and yellow slips this will be the list of the century. Until then it would really be a scheduling nightmare. Then once the list is done it becomes a training nightmare. Before any efficiencies are ever achieved. You could eaisly be a capt on your JFK-Kiev route

I can see what you are saying. There are a lot of issues to cover if we ever merge, no doubt. We also just retired 2500 of our senior Captains, and we only have around 300-400 Captains over 50 years old. If we went by DOH, NW would clean up. So, that would have to be addressed too. Our 777 flights to NRT have two Captains and two FOs---14 hour flights---but other than that we have one Captain and 2 FOs for everything else. That will all be worked out in court. I have heard NW already wants to change the 2 captain rule to two FOs--it was on their wish list. In the end, if there is a merger, it will be worked out by ALPA. That really is our only union at DL, and that makes DL attractive to any management or creditor.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[G4G5]

In all honesty we are placing the cart way before the horse. A post CH11 UAL in 2006 would be better suited for a DAL merger/purchase then a still in CH11 NWA would be. MEM and ATL are too close and a merger would still leave NWA/DAL with zero west coast presence.

 

[FreightNazi]

Some other countries may not agree with that, but John McCain will make sure that the consumers have the best price and choice.......That is not good for you, since you would have to compete with the likes of Korean Air Cargo, which will undercut you because they pay their people krap. How is that good for you again? You lack lots of competition here in the States---only two others--and more around the world would love to undercut you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You have obviously misinterpreted the intent of my posts. I was trying to say that UPS and FedEx are the sole remaining airlines that have the lifestyle the legacy passenger carriers enjoyed during their heyday. I wish the best for the Delta and NWA employees. As for the cabotage issue affecting my industry, frankly, you have no idea how this works and I'm not losing ANY sleep over it and would love to see true open skies around the world.

 

[Inconceivable]

Sure nazi, because it has worked so well for maritime shipping.....