NWA buys Independence Air Op Cert.

[Detroitpilot22]

I doubt pinnacle is going to stay exactly the same? Is there really the need for 126 crjs when you are going to have 70 seat aircraft taking over some of the routes we do, for example, dtw-jfk

 

[Detroitpilot22]

giggidee giggidee, giggidee goo

 

[FlyinPiker]

Sounds like no growth for Pinnacle. And the end of the rumor of using the Big Sky certificate for NewCo. Definitely bad for Mesaba as well. If the Northwest pilots vote for MidAtlantic II, then they will most likely get sold off the same way. The TA is horrible for every redtail pilot on the property.

Wow growth has actually been in your thought process through all of this?? Isn't a decent chunk of your fleet currently up for bid right now?

Good luck to all in this mess...

 

[fam62c]

I don't get this.

I'm getting confused here. NWA is bankrupt, they owe everybody money and they're not going to pay most of it back. They are almost broke and they are fighting for their survival. Now, in the middle of all this they want to spend money to start another division? How do they justify all of the start-up costs necessary to get a new company up and running? They already have an operating certificate and a fully operational company why do they need to duplicate all kinds of functions and personell to operate a second certificate when they can't afford to pay their bills as it is? Who pays for this? Also, what are they going to use to secure the leases on all the new airplanes that they want?

They already have (if ratified) an agreement with the employee groups (pilots anyway) to work at rates that will make the operation of the smaller jets competitive so why not just use the operating certificate, employees, resources and structure that they already have and just operate the EMB's as another aircraft type (airline within an airline)? I can't see how totally reinventing the wheel with a parallell operation is going to save money here; it's just going to increase complexity. For Christ sake, this company owned another carrier (Pinnacle) and spun it off, now they want to start ANOTHER airline when they can least afford to do it? If they really wanted the new operation to be seperate why not have a 3rd party foot the bill for starting the thing up and obtaining the planes or use an existing regional. This seems like a half-baked plan to me that is more likely to hurt Northwest than help it reorganize. I honestly don't know if Northwest has a chance to survive with this kind of thinking.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

The crazy part is that Northwest Airlines is under bankruptcy protection. But Northwest Holdings is actually doing very well... Same sort of deal with Mesaba in bankruptcy and MAIR Holding not. I highly doubt that Northwest Airlines will front the final dollars for the new operating certificate and associated startup costs with a new airline. They'll rely on Northwest Holdings for that.

All in all, the new operating certificate and airline allows NW managment one more tool to whipsaw the regionals, and since the new carrier will be flying larger aircraft, this places direct pressure on the mainline pilot group as well...

When NW spun off 9E, if I recall correctly, it had a different purpose. I think the IPO associated with 9E was to help fund the pension at NW. Well, can't exactly do that again with Pinnacle. So they now need another cash cow to help with the bankruptcy exit financing, ala MidAtlantic. Start a new carrier, place some desirable aircraft on the certificate and later on sell it to the highest bidder. It'll generate a ton of cash for it's desired purpose. Problem is that it corn-holes the employees associated with the sold carrier... But wait, management doesn't care about us anyways...

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I'm getting confused here. NWA is bankrupt, they owe everybody money and they're not going to pay most of it back. They are almost broke and they are fighting for their survival. Now, in the middle of all this they want to spend money to start another division? How do they justify all of the start-up costs necessary to get a new company up and running? They already have an operating certificate and a fully operational company why do they need to duplicate all kinds of functions and personell to operate a second certificate when they can't afford to pay their bills as it is? Who pays for this? Also, what are they going to use to secure the leases on all the new airplanes that they want?

They already have (if ratified) an agreement with the employee groups (pilots anyway) to work at rates that will make the operation of the smaller jets competitive so why not just use the operating certificate, employees, resources and structure that they already have and just operate the EMB's as another aircraft type (airline within an airline)? I can't see how totally reinventing the wheel with a parallell operation is going to save money here; it's just going to increase complexity. For Christ sake, this company owned another carrier (Pinnacle) and spun it off, now they want to start ANOTHER airline when they can least afford to do it? If they really wanted the new operation to be seperate why not have a 3rd party foot the bill for starting the thing up and obtaining the planes or use an existing regional. This seems like a half-baked plan to me that is more likely to hurt Northwest than help it reorganize. I honestly don't know if Northwest has a chance to survive with this kind of thinking.

The parent company of Northwest bought it. NWA is bankrupt not NWA holdings, it's all a big shell game. Holdings is a collection of commercial banks and high dollar investments, they basically have unlimited resources. Airlines aren't in the business of making money, they are in the business of making someone else a lot of money.

 

[xjhawk]

yeah agred NWA management is a bunch of idiots

yeah so when they get ten of those 1:1 aircraft on property, they can sell this new company off, or, as they did with Pinnacle, do a IPO and make money hand over foot. I just hope walstreet will see that the same thing will happpen to that stock as happened to Pinnacle stock.

I'm getting confused here. NWA is bankrupt, they owe everybody money and they're not going to pay most of it back. They are almost broke and they are fighting for their survival. Now, in the middle of all this they want to spend money to start another division? How do they justify all of the start-up costs necessary to get a new company up and running? They already have an operating certificate and a fully operational company why do they need to duplicate all kinds of functions and personell to operate a second certificate when they can't afford to pay their bills as it is? Who pays for this? Also, what are they going to use to secure the leases on all the new airplanes that they want?

They already have (if ratified) an agreement with the employee groups (pilots anyway) to work at rates that will make the operation of the smaller jets competitive so why not just use the operating certificate, employees, resources and structure that they already have and just operate the EMB's as another aircraft type (airline within an airline)? I can't see how totally reinventing the wheel with a parallell operation is going to save money here; it's just going to increase complexity. For Christ sake, this company owned another carrier (Pinnacle) and spun it off, now they want to start ANOTHER airline when they can least afford to do it? If they really wanted the new operation to be seperate why not have a 3rd party foot the bill for starting the thing up and obtaining the planes or use an existing regional. This seems like a half-baked plan to me that is more likely to hurt Northwest than help it reorganize. I honestly don't know if Northwest has a chance to survive with this kind of thinking.

 

[xjhawk]

oh and one more thing.....those of you at MEsaba like i am.....now that it looks like we are out of the picture, it makes total sense to vote NO for sure now. Full pay til the last day!

 

[SEVEN]

I also heard from the Mesaba training department yesterday that the Avro sims in MSP are being removed . Looks like we will be a 49 saab fleet with 450 pilots for a while.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I also heard from the Mesaba training department yesterday that the Avro sims in MSP are being removed . Looks like we will be a 49 saab fleet with 450 pilots for a while.

Yes, the paperwork is finalized to remove the ARJ's from service at NWAlk. It's possible Mesaba is being kept around right now to explore the depths of bankruptcy. If the judge does reject the contract, a work stoppage must come immediately even if an injuction from the court is granted. This will allow more leverage for pilots at other carriers looking to bankruptcy to fix the labor problems.