Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

NW/DL (and ultimately affecting ALL of us): The Flaw With "Career Expectations"

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
It's a brotherhood right? It'll all work so each side gets the most out of the merger--no side will take advantage of the other for their own gain.
 
Not to pick on you General but its that mentality that has put us in arbitration.

A negotiated list will build brotherhood but I think arbitration will treat NWA better. There is no way that the arbitrators could do worse than a 500 pilot staple.

Wait, your DOH proposal did the same thing. We actually were EXPANDING over the last 2 years, and we hired for that. You ony hired 176, and we hired 600+---and DOH would put a lage chunk of our guys at the bottom too, yet we are STILL expanding, and we are still short of pilots. Now that the DCC is over, maybe RA can expand a bit on which planes are likely to go away (hint, they are probably large and old) soon. That could be a factor in the SLI too. I am sure it was brought up anyway in the "confidential" part of our hearings..


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
It's a brotherhood right? It'll all work so each side gets the most out of the merger--no side will take advantage of the other for their own gain.

Taking advantage is a tough stance. I would say what each is bringing or taking to or from the table. If one is expanding and one is bound to get smaller, then that should be taken into account.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Relative percentage

If you hold the same relative percentage after the integration that you held before the seniority integration, then your QOL and bidding abilities will not be affected. If you're trying to get anything more than what you already have, you are contributing to the "me first" attitude that's accelerating the downward spiral of the piloting profession.
 
My opinion only but I believe a straight ratio based on relative seniority will be the best solution in the long run. You're at 50% now, and end up at 50% in the combined company. No bump/flush and short fences to transition then bid what you can hold.

What is the DL side (AND the NW side) planning to do about:

- making newer DL pilots equal within their classes by doing by Date of Birth within classes (like the rest of their company and most others)

-making newer NW pilots equal (BEFORE a negotiated or arbitrated seniority list) by making them equal citizens in applying the same longevity and probation rules everyone else on both sides are now enjoying?

-recognizing that the DL new hires that started AFTER the merger announcement have NO BUSINESS being placed higher in seniority to NW new hires who accepted their jobs before the merger was officially announced?

I have buddies at both places and wish you all the best, and you are setting precedents that others may follow, so please be TRULY fair, not selfish, as I said "Career Expectations" mean nothing as United, PanAm and MANY MANY others can attest.
 
Last edited:
If you hold the same relative percentage after the integration that you held before the seniority integration, then your QOL and bidding abilities will not be affected. If you're trying to get anything more than what you already have, you are contributing to the "me first" attitude that's accelerating the downward spiral of the piloting profession.


I agree, and throw in some fences (maybe 5 years) for each side on the large equipment. A problem with the NWA side is the greenbook supressed seniority. There are too many greenbooks that are VERY VERY senior who could NOT bid up to their rightful widebody seat due to the Roberts Award fence coming down, but no slots due to a lack of retirements and displacements. Those guys need to stay on their own equipment, and thanks to their new manning formula thanks to our rules(2 capts/2 FOs for over 12 hour flights), they can bid for those now.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
What is the DL side (AND the NW side) planning to do about:

- making newer DL pilots equal within their classes by doing by Date of Birth within classes (like the rest of their company and most others)

-making newer NW pilots equal (BEFORE a negotiated or arbitrated seniority list) by making them equal citizens in applying the same longevity and probation rules everyone else on both sides are now enjoying?

-recognizing that the DL new hires that started AFTER the merger announcement have NO BUSINESS being placed higher in seniority to NW new hires who accepted their jobs before the merger was officially announced?

I have buddies at both places and wish you all the best, and you are setting precedents that others may follow, so please be TRULY fair, not selfish, as I said "Career Expectations" mean nothing as United, PanAm and MANY MANY others can attest.

I forgot to add this list...

-Are both sides working from the MOST current lists that show the MOST current equipment and active status?
 
What is the DL side (AND the NW side) planning to do about:

- making newer DL pilots equal within their classes by doing by Date of Birth within classes (like the rest of their company and most others)

-making newer NW pilots equal (BEFORE a negotiated or arbitrated seniority list) by making them equal citizens in applying the same longevity and probation rules everyone else on both sides are now enjoying?

-recognizing that the DL new hires that started AFTER the merger announcement have NO BUSINESS being placed higher in seniority to NW new hires who accepted their jobs before the merger was officially announced?

I have buddies at both places and wish you all the best, and you are setting precedents that others may follow, so please be TRULY fair, not selfish, as I said "Career Expectations" mean nothing as United, PanAm and MANY MANY others can attest.

a.) DOB is no longer used. It's some random version of low (or high) SSN now.

b.) everyone is equal now as far as I know. NW guys also get pay longevity for the time they were furloughed as well (huge for them) as DL always had.

c.) it's in arbitration.
 
What is the DL side (AND the NW side) planning to do about:

- making newer DL pilots equal within their classes by doing by Date of Birth within classes (like the rest of their company and most others)

-making newer NW pilots equal (BEFORE a negotiated or arbitrated seniority list) by making them equal citizens in applying the same longevity and probation rules everyone else on both sides are now enjoying?

-recognizing that the DL new hires that started AFTER the merger announcement have NO BUSINESS being placed higher in seniority to NW new hires who accepted their jobs before the merger was officially announced?

I have buddies at both places and wish you all the best, and you are setting precedents that others may follow, so please be TRULY fair, not selfish, as I said "Career Expectations" mean nothing as United, PanAm and MANY MANY others can attest.

A lot of what you talk about is fantasy. I think phrogs4ever has it about right. You shouldn't gain anything that you didn't have before the merger, and that would favor relative percentage. Delta also has a lot more widebodies and the pay that goes along with them, while Northwest has a lot of the lowest paying equipment, the DC9. That will be looked at by the arbitrators I would speculate. And, I think United does the social security number also for class seniority.
 
I forgot to add this list...

-Are both sides working from the MOST current lists that show the MOST current equipment and active status?[/quote]


That would be great. Their SLI computer model showed 94 active DC9s, and had slots for 787s....also, let's get RA's opinion on how long the 742s will remain. If it is already in the business plan to get rid of them soon, that is important.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Last edited:

Latest resources

Back
Top