NTSB also looking at pilot compensation!

GSXR600

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Just saw a report on CNN that besides training (does not apply to all) and pilot fatigue also pilot compensation is a problem for regional airlines.

May be this will be positive news for a better pay in the near future.......or may be not, since the goverment is getting involved!
 

Wanderlust

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Dunno.
The best time to be an airline pilot was when the government was heavily involved.
 

NEDude

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The best time to be an airline pilot was when the government was heavily involved.

I'll second that. There are a lot of things the government should not be involved in. But anything that involves public safety and transportation, I think they need to be very involved. Deregulation is the worst thing to happen to the airline industry. Sure for a short while it was great for the traveling public, but now it as resulted in horrible customer service and unsustainable businesses. Add to that it is overseen by a regulatory agency that has the dual function of promoting and policing the industry and way too often it has caved in to management at the expense of safety.
 

rustypigeon

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They can never regulate how much a pilot gets compensated. The only thing that they can regulate is how much total time is required to pilot a transport catagory aircraft. And this, in my opinion, is what needs to change.

If they re-write the regs to require both the PIC and SIC to have an ATP (which is certainly within reason), then compensation would go up because there would be fewer qualified pilots. This is what needs to be done. It will keep the 250 hour wonder pilots in the instructor seat of a 152 where they belong.

I know I will get a lot of flak from the guys who got hired with low time, but can you honestly say that requiring an ATP to get hired at any airline is too much to ask for?
 
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vectorvictor

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They can never regulate how much a pilot gets compensated. The only thing that they can regulate is how much total time is required to pilot a transport catagory aircraft. And this, in my opinion, is what needs to change.

If they re-write the regs to require all pilots to have an ATP (which is certainly within reason), then compensation would go up because there would be fewer qualified pilots. This is what needs to be done. It will keep the 250 hour wonder pilots in the instructor seat of a 152 where they belong.

I know I will get a lot of flak from the guys who got hired with low time, but can you honestly say that requiring an ATP to get hired at any airline is too much to ask for?
I agree. We should raise the minimums for an ATP certificate while we are at it. Doubling it might be appropriate. It would return us to the "pay your dues" and instruct, fly checks, etc.. and learn. It would weed the garbage, create a pilot "shortage", increase pay & benefits & working conditions. I'm all for it. I knew nothing at 300 hours. Sorry guys...feel free to tee off.
 

Erlanger

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The best time to be an airline pilot was when the government was heavily involved.
The NTSB has no enforcement abilities. All this attention to low pay and fatigue may be great now but when the final report comes out the cause of the accident will be simply that the pilot failed to respond correctly to a stall. It's going to blame training not the other reasons as to way he didn't apply proper stall recovery technique. Fatique may be listed as to the reason they didn't catch the decreasing airspeed though but the bottom line is it was the stall and improper recovery that caused the crash. No mention of commuting or low pilot pay as a contributing cause. Case closed!! And all will be forgotten except the only change will be the FAA will impliment stricter stall training for everyone.
 

NEDude

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You are correct that the NTSB has no enforcement ability. But public pressure can be very powerful. We as airline pilots have been crying for years that the public doesn't understand what it really is like for pilots. Well we now have our opportunity. We need to stop acting like we always do and need to get together and push for some major change. Contact ABC news, they are trying to get some information about working for a regional airline (I'll post the like at the bottom). Write your elected leaders in Washington. Write letters to the editors of your local papers. Talk to friends and family. We have an open window right now and it is our duty as professionals to take advantage of it and do what we need to work for a safer industry. If we let the window close, who knows if it when it will open again. Keep the pressure on and keep this in the news.

Pay will not come back right away, but there can be changes made, that should be made, that can have a positive effect on safety, quality of life and pay.

ABC news:
http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/story?id=7585208
 

jetjock6

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Requiring all 121 pilots to possess an ATP is one of the best suggestions yet.
 

NEDude

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I like the idea of requiring all pilots flying 121 posses an ATP. Seems reasonable. Heck you need far more experience to run canceled checks in a Cessna than you need to fly a jet full of passengers.

Remember too that most of us get our ATPs when we upgrade. This would most likely require pilots to pay a flight school to get the ATP certificate before applying. Although I could see airlines start to just require ATP minimums for applying and then awarding the ATP certificate at the new-hire check ride. Still, it would begin to limit the supply of low timers ready to jump into an RJ with 500 hours.

Everyone write their Congressmen and Senators and begin a push for this ASAP. Let's get moving people.
 

StarHustler

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ATP means Airline Transport Pilot for a reason....
 

NEDude

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Okay guys, I have practiced what I have been preaching. I sent letters off to both Senators and my Congressman. Time for you guys to do the same. And those of you at ALPA carriers, why not try and put some pressure on them as well. Make them somewhat useful.
 

jonjuan

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ATP means Airline Transport Pilot for a reason....
Are you serious? $2,500 and a weekend of your time and it's all yours. The written? LMFAO. Give us $500, we'll give you all the questions and answers. Memorize, go to lunch, come back and see how quickly you can take the test. It will only mean more biz for the weekend ATP schools.
It's the same as Higher Power dishing out 737 types. Exactly what is the pass rate there?
 

jetjock6

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Are you serious? $2,500 and a weekend of your time and it's all yours. The written? LMFAO. Give us $500, we'll give you all the questions and answers. Memorize, go to lunch, come back and see how quickly you can take the test. It will only mean more biz for the weekend ATP schools.
It's the same as Higher Power dishing out 737 types. Exactly what is the pass rate there?
The test is not the issue. It's the hour and experience requirements to obtain the rating that would solve some of the problems.
 

ImbracableCrunk

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Sounds like a good campaign slogan to me. Kinda like "Pistols for Pandas."

"ATPs for ATPs!"
 

rustypigeon

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Are you serious? $2,500 and a weekend of your time and it's all yours. The written? LMFAO. Give us $500, we'll give you all the questions and answers. Memorize, go to lunch, come back and see how quickly you can take the test. It will only mean more biz for the weekend ATP schools.
It's the same as Higher Power dishing out 737 types. Exactly what is the pass rate there?
The point is not that having an ATP makes you a super pilot, it is about raising the bar.

Allowing any 250 hour commercial pilot to fly an aircraft with 70 people onboard has flooded the industry with underqualified pilots (yet qualified by FAA standards) By requiring an ATP, you will at least require that all applicants have 1500tt, 500 xc, 100 night, 75 instrument, and 250 PIC. (I wouldn't mind seeing that 250 PIC requirement increase to 1000).
 

Superpilot92

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Dunno?
I like the idea of requiring all pilots flying 121 posses an ATP. Seems reasonable. Heck you need far more experience to run canceled checks in a Cessna than you need to fly a jet full of passengers.

Remember too that most of us get our ATPs when we upgrade. This would most likely require pilots to pay a flight school to get the ATP certificate before applying. Although I could see airlines start to just require ATP minimums for applying and then awarding the ATP certificate at the new-hire check ride. Still, it would begin to limit the supply of low timers ready to jump into an RJ with 500 hours.

Everyone write their Congressmen and Senators and begin a push for this ASAP. Let's get moving people.
I agree, the effects of making an ATP a minimum requirement to fly for the airlines would be huge. It would cut down on the number of pay for training programs and weed out alot of the fodder at the bottom of the chain. Allowing people to get hired at 300 hours means any joe can be hired and the airlines can get away with low pay cause they can hire just about anyone to fill the seat and hope for the best.
 

Andy Neill

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The point is not that having an ATP makes you a super pilot, it is about raising the bar.

Allowing any 250 hour commercial pilot to fly an aircraft with 70 people onboard has flooded the industry with underqualified pilots (yet qualified by FAA standards) By requiring an ATP, you will at least require that all applicants have 1500tt, 500 xc, 100 night, 75 instrument, and 250 PIC. (I wouldn't mind seeing that 250 PIC requirement increase to 1000).
So a more palatable regulation would be to require Part 121 SICs to be eligible for the ATP - not necessarily that they have the rating nor that they have passed the test.
 

rustypigeon

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So a more palatable regulation would be to require Part 121 SICs to be eligible for the ATP - not necessarily that they have the rating nor that they have passed the test.
Or as NEDude suggested, as long as they meet the ATP experience requirements, the airline could issue them an ATP at the completion of newhire training.
 
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