NPRM: 1500hr Minimum for Airline Pilots!

[Flybet3]

whatever granddad

Please dont start comparing "buy your job" with getting your commercial ticket. If you dont know the diff. there is nothing I could ever say to clue you in.

Hey grandpa, this is not 1960 anymore. I know many many instuctors that buy multi-engine time to get ahead b/c to build multi-time as an instruction is just eternal. All my instructors bought more than half of their multi time. To me thats the same as going and buying flight time in a beech 1900.Everyone is buying a job to a certain extent, so bite me.

 

[FR8mastr]

congratulations go buy your job its the same thing, Like I said there is nothing I can say.

 

[wheelsup]

THIS IS GREAT!!!

This is the intelligent dialog that I’m talking about!

Sorry man. It was a good discussion ...oh wait, there's that "ignore" button .

Not its, maybe pay 5000 grand for your instructor ratings and eat crap for a year maybe two.

I make $30k+ working 5 days a week, 8-10 hours a day as a CFI. And I've been doing it now for about a year (got this job 6 months ago)...now upwards of 1400TT and 150 multi. Full benefits, etc. And I never had to buy an ounce of multi time...or a job. I'm sorry you feel you have to.

isn't Southwest, or even the LCC in general, partly to blame for the low pay of profesional pilots? At the end of the day, when everyone is trying to match their bottom line prices, we are the ones who lose

I've been reading the book Nutz! lately which is a biography of SWA. In it, they mention that Southwest isn't always the lowest priced airline, but their marketing department has done such a good job ingraining this in peoples' heads they automatically believe it. I don't travel SW for cheap fares, however - I travel because we'll leave on time and arrive early, normally non-stop. And their pilots make more (especially as weighed as 737-only fleet) that the majors top-earners on their biggest equipment.
LCC's only serve select markets, and most of the smaller communities have to rely on the mainline 'regionals' and EAS - something SWA will probably never touch.

How come other business's aren't like this? I don't know much about the other industries, but I'm sure they're just as cut-through but you never hear labor complaining. Maybe it's because we're all educated "blue-collar" (re: union) workers, and we think for ourselves?


~wheelsup

 

[Flybet3]

I make $30k+ working 5 days a week, 8-10 hours a day as a CFI. And I've been doing it now for about a year (got this job 6 months ago)...now upwards of 1400TT and 150 multi. Full benefits, etc. And I never had to buy an ounce of multi time...or a job. I'm sorry you feel you have to.


150 Multi in 6 months...sounds great my friend. Well either way, you ready to take a biiiiiig paycut in another year or so, once you get enough multi to go to a regional.

 

[Typhoon1244]

In the mid-60s, airlines were flying Connies, DC-6/7s, B727s, DC-8s, and Electras. The 737 didn't come out until 1967.

Yeah...I meant to say mid- to late-Sixties.

Those low time guys spent 9+ years at the engineers panel before they ever saw the right seat of anything...

Two-thirds of my father's newhire class at Eastern was under twenty-three. None of them met the requirements to get an F.E. ticket, so they went straight to the right seat of the Convair 440 and DC-8 until they were old enough. The same thing was happening at United and National.

Remember, those years were critical for airline hiring. The W.W. II generation was hitting age sixty all at once, ans the major airlines were hiring darn near anybody who could handle flying an airplane. And it worked because the training was so good.

Experience is great, but it isn't the only thing that matters.

 

[belchfire]

Whatever...they need to be looking at a
NPRM about 10 hrs rest...in the hotel, not
from the airport! Non reducable!

dimtwits! I would rather fly with a well
rested new guy than a tired veteran. That
would mean that I was well rested too!

 

[propsare4boats]

You talk to Major airline pilots that worked at regionals and they will all tell you stories of when they worked of when they all made 800 to 1000 bucks a months and lived with 5 other guys in a trailer. Nothing has changed. Nothing will ever change.

The problem with that statement is, that was years ago...our pay never went up with inflation. Don't you think it's rediculous when a manager at a local video store starts at 36,000 a year and a pilot starts at 16,000.

Also, I was hired with 2000 hours, I made just as much as the pilot hired with a wet temporary multi certifacte and green behind the ears. So the pay isn't necessary related to experience yet what we are willing to except.

Like pay for training at airlines.... if people would stop doing it then airlines would have to come up with a better plan. But the trouble with that is it seems you always have that one guy/girl willing to whore themselves out!

 

[propsare4boats]

Ah sorry, but you lost me.
Once you said you wanted ALPA to get involved in something, I tuned out.
Alpa is nothing but a bunch of monkeys f*cking a football.

The best thing to happen that isn't realistic would be for the regionals to have a Union to represent our best interest instead of just the majors.

For example Comair and Delta both Alpa whose interest do you think Alpa is protecting....

 

[100LL... Again!]

The problem:

Many very low-time pilots are very competent. However, low time pilots are increasingly being selected due to their abilty to pay rather than ability to fly.

Therefore, to stop people from buying their jobs (the race-to-the-bottom future, as I see it), we need to create a fair weed-out.


To all of the blathering masses that spout hyperbole about "how about we only hire military pilots"???? or, " How about we require 20/20 vision ???

Here is why you are TOTALLY OFF-BASE:
A 1500 hour weed-out does not discriminate with anywhere near the arbitrary nature of a military-only criteria, or some ridiculous requirement like 20/20 vision only.

ALL pilots can reasonably be expected to atttain 1500 hours. Not all of us can be military pilots. Not all can have 20/20.

Require all airline pilots to HOLD an ATP. There - that's not too much to ask, is it? You are an airline pilot flying a transport-category aircraft. An ATP is a reasonable requirement.


Maybe there are a lot of skilled 300 hour pilots. There are also a lot of them that are pushed through training. Let's not kid ourselves here. Even though the 1500 hour requirement would not do much for safety, to be honest, it would be the end of large numbers of pay-for-your-job crap.

There are not very many people who can afford to PFT all the way to 1500 hours, are there?

 

[Typhoon1244]

I would rather fly with a well rested new guy than a tired veteran. That would mean that I was well rested too!

Amen, halelujah! Nothing sucks worse than having the nods in the middle of the ILS to 26L in ATL at six A.M...or so I've heard.

 

[AviatorTx]

Flight time has nothing to with qualifications. I was flying patrols the in left seat of a P-3 off the coast of Vietnam with less than 400 hours total. Military pilots routinely check out as A/C's in C-130's, C-5's etc with less than a 1000 hrs of flight. So the military pilot with 1300 hours of MEL turbine in a C-130 could not be hired but the civilian with 1500 hours VFR C-150 time would be more qualified? Besides hiring minimums are also redefined based upon Market conditions. When hiring is hot, the competitive minimums are refined to ensure an adequate pool of potential candidates.

I agree with you. BUT... There is a huge difference in the "weeding out process" between getting a military flight slot, and getting hired at a regional.

Unless your Dad is a senator, being a member of the golden sperm club is not going to get you a military flight slot. There is a big difference in getting a flight slot for an active duty F-16 unit, and Gulfstream.

If the regionals would hold the pilot applicants to the same standards the military did, I would be happy taking 300 hour guys on.

 

[AviatorTx]

Dito!! What about all the pilots with less than 1000TT that XJT and Eagle have hired. They both have hired a lot of low timers over the past year and a half. The better half of those have no turbine or 121 time!!!

It shows.

Some of us XJT captains are getting tired of flying single pilot ships.

 

[Tank Commander]

To be you one day........6000+ and have your knowledge...

 

[100LL... Again!]

Anyone who compares a 300 hour mesa grad with a 300-hour military pilot should have their a$$ thoroughly kicked. There is absolutely no comparison between the quality. I'm not ex-mil, but I will gladly agree that the US military trains pilots MANY times better than some certificate mill.

 

[Tank Commander]

You are right, Its called disipline, and I don't think you could kick my ass, so tone it down little man.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Yes Sir Capt Sir

 

[100LL... Again!]

Then I'll look around until I find someone who can kick it.

 

[Tank Commander]

Tell them to bring a lunch......

 

[MECH]

For the last 6 plus years I have had the opportunity to train new pilots at my airline. I have noticed that it really doesn't matter what the pilot has done before. As any flight instructor will tell you it is all up to the individual. Some people are just naturals and some have to work a little harder. I have to say the same thing to a pilot with 10,000 hours and to a pilot with 700 hours; aviate, navigate, communicate. The worst student I ever had was a pilot that had flown in the North East flying a Piston twin. He was a terrible pilot. On the other hand, some of my best students were ones that only flew night checks. The debate over low time, high time, military, flying checks or flight instructor will go on for ever. It is all up to the individual. There is no right answer.

Perhaps the FAA, like the American Medical Association, should be more selective in awarding Commercial Pilot Certificates.

 

[Alchemy]

Some of us XJT captains are getting tired of flying single pilot ships.

Oh, god.