NPA playing Hardball to Airtran

[PCL_128]

Lots of people say that we have a weak pilot group, it can only credit a weak union for that!

Have you signed a card?

 

[BSkin]

Not just for Me? Is that what you said. See there in lies the problem my friend and it's always been the problem with this industry. ME! ME! ME!!! The NPA is absolutely doing the right thing. Making the company abide by the contract. Good for them. It's about time. And this has nothing to do about the furloughees either, according to the company, they will have 35 positions open, so they will come back regardless, unless the company cancels that just out of spite, which I wouldn't put it past them.

This is what I was refering to on another thread about section 6 in our CBA btw.

SO 717capt, this weak union decides to TRY and make a stand, a stupid one at that, on principal. Make the displacees go through training, then bring the furloughees back and go through training. Again, Not ME ME ME, how 'bout YOU YOU YOU! Want $50k taken out of your check on principal, if you say yes, you're a liar! If this union had shown me any balls, any backbone, and I felt I'd be taking a cut for a good cause, I'd do it. Please illustrate why I, or others in my situation, and furloughees getting called back should support this stand!

I, along with many others, got a nice surprise for X-mas, and people like you think it should be turned into a terd sandwich. So the company re-thought the numbers, what's the big f-ing deal? How is that hurting anyone? If the union wants to show some balls, it can surely find something bigger and better than this.

 

[CatfishVT9]

INVOLUNTARY!!!!!

There's no change to "status quo" for cancelling that. Real easy. Let the handful of guys go to 717 FO that want to, but everyone else would be a forced move.

Anyone that thinks this will "make the company pay" to have a mass training event is an idiot. They'll just be laughing at us for standing our ground.

 

[scarlet]

Ok Fine--let them Cancel it now.

Next year you get the FINAL AWARD for Captain..you think yes FINALLY.

The company then can cancel that award at ANYTIME/As MANY TIMES they like...Past Precedent=We lose in the future ,,big time !!!

Weak union, causes weak pilot group??? How many people show up at the town hall meetings? Conference calls?? Yeah email updates everyday and still have not reached 50% of pilots voting? SAD

If you get ALPA, tell me who is going to run for local Office=THE SAME PEOPLE !

 

[cheeseheadcrj]

A weak pilot group creates a weak union; the infighting amongst us is ridiculous. You can’t desire a strong union while wishing they would not enforce the contract just because you perceive it as a good thing. If you don’t like the contract language, then use your voice and try your damdest to get it revised, until then it’s the only protection you have. If you want to be a divider keep on bashing the NPA for trying to enforce your contract language. It doesn’t matter who represents us if there is no unity, switching unions is probably a good thing but opposing the current representation for doing their jobs serves no constructive purpose, ALPA or the IBT would be bound to do the same thing.
Club 169

 

[Max Powers]

SO 717capt, this weak union decides to TRY and make a stand, a stupid one at that, on principal. Make the displacees go through training, then bring the furloughees back and go through training. Again, Not ME ME ME, how 'bout YOU YOU YOU! Want $50k taken out of your check on principal, if you say yes, you're a liar! If this union had shown me any balls, any backbone, and I felt I'd be taking a cut for a good cause, I'd do it. Please illustrate why I, or others in my situation, and furloughees getting called back should support this stand!

I, along with many others, got a nice surprise for X-mas, and people like you think it should be turned into a terd sandwich. So the company re-thought the numbers, what's the big f-ing deal? How is that hurting anyone? If the union wants to show some balls, it can surely find something bigger and better than this.

Helllllooooooo.....Those are the rules governing our contract. If you don't like them then why don't you step up to the plate and work within your union to help get a new contract.

There are so many guys like you at AirTran. Let me see your thinking about some sort of recall etc which would further weaken our leverage against the company.

I hate to break this to you chief but this is how leverage is achieved in negotiations. I could go on but I think it is fully wasted on someone like you.

 

[Lear70]

You'll likely get a chance to vote on it, unless it becomes a grievance, IF you vote for MemRat NOW...

Go and vote! Anyone on here b*tching who hasn't voted yet needs to be smacked over the head with the contract (at least it's not heavy).

Right or wrong, fair or not, MemRat will decide unless they can come to a decision by Monday, AND have it signed by both parties by that time.

If not, the voting will be closed. If, at that time, MemRat is in place, any change would be a change to the contract or a new side letter and the Membership would get to vote.

Personally, I'd like to see them get some stronger contract language regarding furloughee benefits (maybe continue medical coverage for another 6 months to a year) and recall rights to get your CA's seat back within 6 months of displacement/furlough put in the contract in exchange for saving the company the training costs.

Absolutely, we want to hold their feet to the fire... but we don't have to roast our own pilots who are at risk of being displaced for 2-3 years in the process. Surely there's a middle ground somewhere.

Go vote for MemRat, get some control of your own union back, then eMail Mike and tell him what you think should be in any contract modification. They get enough emails saying the same thing, then they'll know how to proceed in negotiating something that will pass muster with the pilot group.

 

[spitfire1500]

I don't see anything good coming from letting the company set a precedent and a new status quo. It might be nice this time, but we would pay for it for years to come with the company canceling bid awards whenever it suited them.

Thats exactly right!! It's called past practice and our company during negotiaitions (Last 4.5 years) has used it numerous times now to get around sections of our contract.

 

[Ty Webb]

Oh, the Irony!

Lots of people say that we have a weak pilot group, it can only credit a weak union for that!

Sorry, but it's the other way 'round. The NPA is made up of members of the Pilot Group.

You want to change the CBA to protect your seat, and you're mad at the NPA for forcing the Company to follow the Contract, because it will cost YOU $50K/


We have a long-standing problem here if guys looking out only for themselves, instead of what is good for the Pilot Group. Guys who make their own deals . . . . guys who waive the Contract when it suits them, and this is another example of it.

The minute the NPA chooses the needs of the greater Pilot Group over your own narrow self-interest, you are blaming the NPA on a public forum . . . .:bawling:

How about blaming management for their screw up, instead of your fellow pilots?

Ty

 

[Darth]

The behavior of this union is appalling. I cannot believe this bunch of whining nimrods is actually going to fight and delay a pilot recall. Must be nice to have a job, you self righteous bunch of donkeys. To have nothing better to do than point out the incorrectness of the paperwork makes you sound like a bunch of DMV employees. How are looking out for anyone's good if you hamstring the company every time it makes a decision that works in our favor? I am frankly disgusted that any one of you would even consider delaying a recall in order to make some point with management. Pick your battles, stooges. Where's my ALPA card?

 

[Gate 69]

Instead of looking at it as a way back to profitability and getting jobs back asap, The NPA BOD attempts to use this issue to make a stand. Some how, this is going to give us leverage?? I bet Kolski is laughing his a$$ off.

I don't think the Board is speaking for the majority, which is their elected duty. Hopefully, the company will ignore the union as they usually do.

 

[cheeseheadcrj]

Hopefully, the company will ignore the union as they usually do.

This short-sighted and uninformed opinion is a classic example of why the pilot group ar Airtran is abused at will by the company and misrepresented by the NPA. Thanks for the team effort!

 

[FIREMAN]

Per MB the reduction and vacancy notice has been voided. A new vacancy notice will be published with the Dec 12 bids.

 

[carl p]

Sorry, but it's the other way 'round. The NPA is made up of members of the Pilot Group.

You want to change the CBA to protect your seat, and you're mad at the NPA for forcing the Company to follow the Contract, because it will cost YOU $50K/


We have a long-standing problem here if guys looking out only for themselves, instead of what is good for the Pilot Group. Guys who make their own deals . . . . guys who waive the Contract when it suits them, and this is another example of it.

The minute the NPA chooses the needs of the greater Pilot Group over your own narrow self-interest, you are blaming the NPA on a public forum . . . .:bawling:

How about blaming management for their screw up, instead of your fellow pilots?

Ty

Bingo!!! Make the company follow the contract, you know the one they p!ss on regularly. We make the problem worse every time we allow them to get away with it. They must learn to treat our elected officials as partners in the success of the airline. It takes a "big picture" view to understand. Until this group thinks "we" instead of "me" it will never improve. When they threatened us 169 with termination to keep the instructors, most of us said enforce the contract. Guys like Ty understand. The question is, will you walk the walk when it directly affects you?

 

[SkiFishFly]

When I first heard about the NPA objection - I thought WTF?? After talking to some folks and reading some of the posts here I now think that MB is absolutely correct on this one.


OUR Contract has some pretty clear language on this issue and needs to be honored by the company.

Anyone who thinks that if we just look the other way this once - then company would not try to use this as "status quo/precedent" in the future: well those folks have not been paying attention to how this company has treated us over the last several years.

 

[Max Powers]

Instead of looking at it as a way back to profitability and getting jobs back asap, The NPA BOD attempts to use this issue to make a stand. Some how, this is going to give us leverage?? I bet Kolski is laughing his a$$ off.

I don't think the Board is speaking for the majority, which is their elected duty. Hopefully, the company will ignore the union as they usually do.

You are a tool who does not understand solidarity, how a union works and how we should deal with mgmt during a sec. 6 negotiations.

And it's official - Looks like the Company caved and is doing what the NPA requires. I tell you; I was in the break room and some supposed p2p guy tells me what is going on with the award - and in the next sentence/breath rips MB a new one about how "bad of a decision he made". This same turkey went on to grumble about TWA and American merger for the 30 mins I was sitting there which is all he ever talks.

 

[Browntothebone]

How big a raise is the NPA asking for? New Delta contract +1% ?

 

[Eagle757shark]

Lots of people say that we have a weak pilot group, it can only credit a weak union for that!

Sorry bud but I must ask you, who makes up the union? I don't understand why pilots just don't get it. The pilots are the union and the union is only as good as the pilots that take care of it. AGAIN FELLOW PILOTS, YOU ARE YOUR UNION! It doesn't matter NPA, ALPA, or Teamsters. The AirTran union is a function of the AirTran pilots and the members they elect to lead them!

 

[BSkin]

OK, I understand the opposing positions and thinking we need to follow the contract by the tee. My point is, who is this hurting? Is it hurting anyone? Is it helping people, yes! Wait until they try to violate the contract and it hurts people to make a stink!

By the way, I don't, and won't fly right seat, don't like fo's picking up open time unless it's a trade, with guys on the street, and except for this one surprise, am as disgusted with the company's treatment of the pilot group as anyone else. Just don't get making a stand on this!

 

[ron burgundy]

7 months..13 days..9 hrs..16 mins..til .....IMPLOSION!