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NPA playing Hardball to Airtran

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S

scarlet

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Posts
1,048
NPA is enforcing the reduction notice !!!

Making the company do all that training.

The company can not just cancel a final award.

The company now has to post a vacancy award.

The company never called th NPA and made them aware of the intent on cancelling the award=Airtran has no respect for NPA...MAybe Dec 24th we should give them the respect and spend time with your family !!!!
 
The NPA is in receipt of the Company’s letter dated 3 December 2008 from Jim Tabor regarding the planned increase in aircraft utilization and the cancellation of RN08-12.

At first glance, this appears to be positive news for those pilots affected by the Reduction Notice as well as those furloughed pilots who may be recalled. Unfortunately it isn’t that simple.

The NPA’s position is that the CBA does not provide for any method for the Company to cancel a properly posted award and should execute the Reduction Award 08-12. In order to adequately staff the airline for the increased flying, the CBA dictates the need to post a Vacancy Award for the open positions, to be filled in seniority order by active pilots on the AirTran Master Seniority List, with any remaining positions to be filled by furloughed pilots and then new-hires, in accordance with LOA 9 and Section 17 of the CBA.

We understand that this may cause some downgraded Captains to be unable to hold their former position in the resulting Vacancy Award.
We would like to remind all pilots to update both their voluntary and involuntary bids in the Master System Bid menu in FLiCA in anticipation of the Vacancy Award. The NPA is aware that this option is not currently available and we are addressing these concerns with Management in order to get this matter resolved in a timely manner. It is the responsibility of the NPA to represent the interests of all AirTran pilots, actively flying and currently on furlough.
 
Everyone on the NPA site is blasting them for this except for one guy. I think they should have to do it per the contract if that costs them, so be it. The displaced capt's have nobody to blame but "the best management team in the industry." Maybe if they had included the NPA instead of sidestepping them this would'nt have happened.
 
"Maybe if they had included the NPA instead of sidestepping them this would'nt have happened."

Thank you!

RV

when are these Jagoffs going to realize the value of their employees? TREAT US AS AN ASSET, NOT A LIABILITY. Ya' freakin Jagoffs

RV
 
So, the company finally does something good and cancels the displacement, and our NPA BOD cries "foul ball, you should have told us first", at the expense of 35 dues paying pilots. That'll teach 'em!

and you wonder why no one bothers to vote.
 
The company didn't do something good. They violated the contact again. You just happen to like the way it was violated.

Don't get me wrong. I would like to see everyone stay where they are, but I would also like to see this scummy company get a huge training bill. Like it or not, we have to use this huge bill as leverage.
 
As one that was going to be displaced, and now am not, the NPA can go screw themselves! I've given this union every benefit of the doubt for almost 5 years. Let's see if one of these boys want to play hardball if they were trying to reduce their pay by $50k! Granted I know they're TRYING to abide by the CBA, but can't these guys realize that this is a GOOD thing! Not just for me and other would be displacees, but for the furloughees getting called back! Pick a better fight and don't alienate more people!

Catfish, going to the game thanks to a friend at Pepsi!
 
NPA violated its members when it failed to enforce the contract and replace the contractors in the training department not on the seniority list with line pilots on the seniority list prior to furloughing.

NPA is selectively choosing to enforce the contract and allowing the company to violate the contract, all in favor of the company.

NPA has got to go!
 
BSkin, I think I just flew with you. Nice win Saturday. OSU fought a good fight, great game until they died in the 4th. OU wins by 20 and when I went to play golf on Monday freakin OU fans in the pro shop b*cthing about the bad calls...they won by 20 freakin points! Give me a freaking break. Win and a they still aren't happy. Oh how I loathe OU.
 
Yep, I watched and it was a good game until the 4th. Gave 'em a good scare for awhile! Looking forward to my game on SAT. How's the insurance studying going? Run, man, RUN!
 
Just passed the Life and Health portion tonight, sold 3 P&C's yesterday, makin money rollin on the 22's trying like he!! to get away...sad thing I make more money in 2 hours of writing policies than I do in 1 day of flying. What happened to this industry?
 
Real good question. I was sitting at a Ruby Tues the other night and an assistant principal of an elementary school asked why we still charge for the checked bags, "are the pilots just overpaid"? I said are educators overpaid? Yeah but we are responsible for our country's youth -- Yeah we are responsible for 100's of people's lives every day we fly. Do you want an unqualified, lesser paid person in the cockpit if the $hit hits the fan? Not much argument after that.
 
That is what frightens me about this industry. My grandfather was a truck diver, long haul for over 30 years. He made a pretty good living from it, put 3 girls through college etc. In the beginning, talking the early 50's, they wore uniforms, hats etc, I have pictures, by the early 80's, when he retired, it was jeans and a shirt. Now I do not know what happened to the trucking industry but I tend to equate the trucking industry to the airline industry. At one time they were far apart but in my eyes they are getting closer together.

Its a shame and the next d!khead that says that pilots are over paid can feel free to lick my b#lls and look at my W-2 plus my expenses to do the job.
 
BSkin said:
As one that was going to be displaced, and now am not, the NPA can go screw themselves! I've given this union every benefit of the doubt for almost 5 years. Let's see if one of these boys want to play hardball if they were trying to reduce their pay by $50k! Granted I know they're TRYING to abide by the CBA, but can't these guys realize that this is a GOOD thing! Not just for me and other would be displacees, but for the furloughees getting called back! Pick a better fight and don't alienate more people!

Catfish, going to the game thanks to a friend at Pepsi!
Click to expand...

Not just for Me? Is that what you said. See there in lies the problem my friend and it's always been the problem with this industry. ME! ME! ME!!! The NPA is absolutely doing the right thing. Making the company abide by the contract. Good for them. It's about time. And this has nothing to do about the furloughees either, according to the company, they will have 35 positions open, so they will come back regardless, unless the company cancels that just out of spite, which I wouldn't put it past them.

This is what I was refering to on another thread about section 6 in our CBA btw.
 
I don't see anything good coming from letting the company set a precedent and a new status quo. It might be nice this time, but we would pay for it for years to come with the company canceling bid awards whenever it suited them.
 
BSkin said:
Lots of people say that we have a weak pilot group, it can only credit a weak union for that!
Click to expand...

Have you signed a card?
 
717capt said:
Not just for Me? Is that what you said. See there in lies the problem my friend and it's always been the problem with this industry. ME! ME! ME!!! The NPA is absolutely doing the right thing. Making the company abide by the contract. Good for them. It's about time. And this has nothing to do about the furloughees either, according to the company, they will have 35 positions open, so they will come back regardless, unless the company cancels that just out of spite, which I wouldn't put it past them.

This is what I was refering to on another thread about section 6 in our CBA btw.
Click to expand...


SO 717capt, this weak union decides to TRY and make a stand, a stupid one at that, on principal. Make the displacees go through training, then bring the furloughees back and go through training. Again, Not ME ME ME, how 'bout YOU YOU YOU! Want $50k taken out of your check on principal, if you say yes, you're a liar! If this union had shown me any balls, any backbone, and I felt I'd be taking a cut for a good cause, I'd do it. Please illustrate why I, or others in my situation, and furloughees getting called back should support this stand!

I, along with many others, got a nice surprise for X-mas, and people like you think it should be turned into a terd sandwich. So the company re-thought the numbers, what's the big f-ing deal? How is that hurting anyone? If the union wants to show some balls, it can surely find something bigger and better than this.
 
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INVOLUNTARY!!!!!

There's no change to "status quo" for cancelling that. Real easy. Let the handful of guys go to 717 FO that want to, but everyone else would be a forced move.

Anyone that thinks this will "make the company pay" to have a mass training event is an idiot. They'll just be laughing at us for standing our ground.
 
Ok Fine--let them Cancel it now.

Next year you get the FINAL AWARD for Captain..you think yes FINALLY.

The company then can cancel that award at ANYTIME/As MANY TIMES they like...Past Precedent=We lose in the future ,,big time !!!

Weak union, causes weak pilot group??? How many people show up at the town hall meetings? Conference calls?? Yeah email updates everyday and still have not reached 50% of pilots voting? SAD

If you get ALPA, tell me who is going to run for local Office=THE SAME PEOPLE !
 
A weak pilot group creates a weak union; the infighting amongst us is ridiculous. You can’t desire a strong union while wishing they would not enforce the contract just because you perceive it as a good thing. If you don’t like the contract language, then use your voice and try your damdest to get it revised, until then it’s the only protection you have. If you want to be a divider keep on bashing the NPA for trying to enforce your contract language. It doesn’t matter who represents us if there is no unity, switching unions is probably a good thing but opposing the current representation for doing their jobs serves no constructive purpose, ALPA or the IBT would be bound to do the same thing.
Club 169
 
BSkin said:
SO 717capt, this weak union decides to TRY and make a stand, a stupid one at that, on principal. Make the displacees go through training, then bring the furloughees back and go through training. Again, Not ME ME ME, how 'bout YOU YOU YOU! Want $50k taken out of your check on principal, if you say yes, you're a liar! If this union had shown me any balls, any backbone, and I felt I'd be taking a cut for a good cause, I'd do it. Please illustrate why I, or others in my situation, and furloughees getting called back should support this stand!

I, along with many others, got a nice surprise for X-mas, and people like you think it should be turned into a terd sandwich. So the company re-thought the numbers, what's the big f-ing deal? How is that hurting anyone? If the union wants to show some balls, it can surely find something bigger and better than this.
Click to expand...


Helllllooooooo.....Those are the rules governing our contract. If you don't like them then why don't you step up to the plate and work within your union to help get a new contract.

There are so many guys like you at AirTran. Let me see your thinking about some sort of recall etc which would further weaken our leverage against the company.

I hate to break this to you chief but this is how leverage is achieved in negotiations. I could go on but I think it is fully wasted on someone like you.
 
You'll likely get a chance to vote on it, unless it becomes a grievance, IF you vote for MemRat NOW...

Go and vote! Anyone on here b*tching who hasn't voted yet needs to be smacked over the head with the contract (at least it's not heavy).

Right or wrong, fair or not, MemRat will decide unless they can come to a decision by Monday, AND have it signed by both parties by that time.

If not, the voting will be closed. If, at that time, MemRat is in place, any change would be a change to the contract or a new side letter and the Membership would get to vote.

Personally, I'd like to see them get some stronger contract language regarding furloughee benefits (maybe continue medical coverage for another 6 months to a year) and recall rights to get your CA's seat back within 6 months of displacement/furlough put in the contract in exchange for saving the company the training costs.

Absolutely, we want to hold their feet to the fire... but we don't have to roast our own pilots who are at risk of being displaced for 2-3 years in the process. Surely there's a middle ground somewhere.

Go vote for MemRat, get some control of your own union back, then eMail Mike and tell him what you think should be in any contract modification. They get enough emails saying the same thing, then they'll know how to proceed in negotiating something that will pass muster with the pilot group.
 
Nindiri said:
I don't see anything good coming from letting the company set a precedent and a new status quo. It might be nice this time, but we would pay for it for years to come with the company canceling bid awards whenever it suited them.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly right!! It's called past practice and our company during negotiaitions (Last 4.5 years) has used it numerous times now to get around sections of our contract.
 
Oh, the Irony!

BSkin said:
Lots of people say that we have a weak pilot group, it can only credit a weak union for that!
Click to expand...

Sorry, but it's the other way 'round. The NPA is made up of members of the Pilot Group.

You want to change the CBA to protect your seat, and you're mad at the NPA for forcing the Company to follow the Contract, because it will cost YOU $50K/ :rolleyes:


We have a long-standing problem here if guys looking out only for themselves, instead of what is good for the Pilot Group. Guys who make their own deals . . . . guys who waive the Contract when it suits them, and this is another example of it.

The minute the NPA chooses the needs of the greater Pilot Group over your own narrow self-interest, you are blaming the NPA on a public forum . . . .:bawling:

How about blaming management for their screw up, instead of your fellow pilots?

Ty
 
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The behavior of this union is appalling. I cannot believe this bunch of whining nimrods is actually going to fight and delay a pilot recall. Must be nice to have a job, you self righteous bunch of donkeys. To have nothing better to do than point out the incorrectness of the paperwork makes you sound like a bunch of DMV employees. How are looking out for anyone's good if you hamstring the company every time it makes a decision that works in our favor? I am frankly disgusted that any one of you would even consider delaying a recall in order to make some point with management. Pick your battles, stooges. Where's my ALPA card?
 

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