NPA and ALPA move closer to merger

[PCL_128]

Why would this be different under ALPA? Piltots getting pissed off is nothing new. Happens under ALPA, NPA, any union, or a nonunion.

You wouldn't understand until you've seen it for yourself, CL. This isn't just the normal level of "pissed off" that all pilot groups have, this is something entirely different. People are completely fed up. The NPA is completely incapable of being an effective union. It doesn't matter who you put into office, they'll all be ineffective.

 

[CitationLover]

You wouldn't understand until you've seen it for yourself, CL. This isn't just the normal level of "pissed off" that all pilot groups have, this is something entirely different. People are completely fed up. The NPA is completely incapable of being an effective union. It doesn't matter who you put into office, they'll all be ineffective.

Well good luck with this and the ongoing contract negotiators. Happy to see at least some furloughees going back to work, including a good friend of mine returning to AAI.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA is no longer a union, they are a PAC and as such, have very political motives. Just be aware that what they might be advising our pilot group to do is not in our best interests, but rather in ALPA's.

What about your career ISN'T political? Even the negotiations and grievance process is political at any airline including Airtran...

your pilot group vs ALPA's best interest?

What does that mean, because I'll find another thread that states that ALPA is not acting like a true National Union?

Well to function as a true National Union ALPA needs to put the collective first and the individual second..

I do agree that ALPA has more resources available for us to utilize, but i'm not sure if it is worth inviting the devil to dinner...

Said another way.... You aren't sure if you want to deal with mass complexities of collective representation on a local, national and international level?


What sounds easier? Dealing with your town or your town, your state and your country? Of Course the latter will prove to be more difficult....

 

[TWA Dude]

It also takes followership of the highest caliber... Wouldn't you agree?

A great leader inspires pilots and arouses them from their lethargy. Just look at how often a losing sports team can be turned around just by a change in manager. I really don't think there's much difference between individual pilots at different carriers. The quality of the leadership is what really differentiates us.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

A great leader inspires pilots and arouses them from their lethargy.

Where do you expect to find this greatness? Any given pilot on your seniority list is to be this leader?

Just look at how often a losing sports team can be turned around just by a change in manager. I really don't think there's much difference between individual pilots at different carriers. The quality of the leadership is what really differentiates us.

It is a combined effort... we don't have the entire country to select our union leadership... In addition, most leaders have paid followers...

In my opinion, the followership is going to have to take more responsibility....

What are the options? Hope that the next elected pilot on our seniority list is "the one"?

Seriously, look at the pilots you fly with and in the crewrooms? Do you see any of them have great inspiring leadership qualities?

 

[Turtle21]

You're right that ALPA is no panacea, but that's not the question before us. The choice we have is between two different unions: ALPA or NPA. The NPA has been an unmitigated disaster. We have had 6 Presidents in the past 10 years, and there have already been several recall petitions for our current President. The average time that a rep serves is only 18 months, even though the terms for office are 2-3 years, depending on the office. Everyone either resigns or is recalled before the completion of their term. This is indicative of a complete structural problem. It's not just individual reps, the whole thing is f---ed up.

Is ALPA perfect? Nope. Is it better than what we've got? No question.

Well if you view recalls as a problem then ALPA is the solution that will be just peachy. ALPA will ignore requests to have a recall agenda item. And the National officers will obstruct recalls by neglecting to enforce the recall provision in the constitution.

To recall reps in ALPA you need to throw out the entire union.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well if you view recalls as a problem then ALPA is the solution that will be just peachy. ALPA will ignore requests to have a recall agenda item. And the National officers will obstruct recalls by neglecting to enforce the recall provision in the constitution.

To recall reps in ALPA you need to throw out the entire union.

Where does the Nic award play in all of this that you say?

 

[PCL_128]

Well if you view recalls as a problem then ALPA is the solution that will be just peachy. ALPA will ignore requests to have a recall agenda item. And the National officers will obstruct recalls by neglecting to enforce the recall provision in the constitution.

To recall reps in ALPA you need to throw out the entire union.

If you dimwitted Easties would learn how to follow the recall procedures, then you could have had your damned recall vote. It's not ALPA's fault that you mouth breathers can't follow a simple procedure.

 

[Turtle21]

Where does the Nic award play in all of this that you say?

Your question is not germane to the issue of ALPA abiding by its constitution to place a recall item on the agenda upon proper request of a member in good standing. It was the experience of CLT pilots that ALPA denied them their right to recall, and ALPA national refused to enforce its own constitution.

ALPA is replete with the notion that members have to ask ALPA for permission to have the proper ALPA-approved opinion.

Keep propping up the rotten tree. :laugh:

 

[Turtle21]

If you dimwitted Easties would learn how to follow the recall procedures, then you could have had your damned recall vote. It's not ALPA's fault that you mouth breathers can't follow a simple procedure.

You would make a great senior ALPA rep. Since ALPA denies access to its own procedure we took the only recourse available. The NMB provided us the first chance to ever vote on brilliant, evolved elitists.

The NMB is so easy.. even an group of evolution challenged mouth breathers can do it.

 

[scarlet]

Yeah these guys do not know the by laws at ALPA=

MEC Rules and can make all agreements without votes from the pilots!! ie Midwest !

PCL=Alpa was great for you at PCL=how was the resources for that contract that they still have not gotten.

Why are we running to an airline that other airlines are running from? where does the 3 million that NPA has in the bank go? ALPA NATIONAL?

 

[scarlet]

Funny on the front page of majors

TWO MAJORS airlines hating ALPA. How does the 200-300 pilots that are hard core ALPA here, feel about this? You think hundreds or maybe thousands of pilots that have ALPA and do NOT LIKE THEM

DAL,CAL,PCL,MESA,ASA,UAL,Polar,COMAIR,TWA,MIDWEST..??

 

[PCL_128]

Yeah these guys do not know the by laws at ALPA=

MEC Rules and can make all agreements without votes from the pilots!! ie Midwest !

Not true. Every ALPA MEC now has a MEMRAT policy for contract ratification. Each MEC has a slightly different policy for ratification of side-letters, but all of them have significant restrictions.

PCL=Alpa was great for you at PCL=how was the resources for that contract that they still have not gotten.

ALPA resources were great at PCL. No one at Pinnacle ever feared for their job like pilots here do every day. I think you'll find that their new agreement will come very soon, and it will contain massive improvements.

Why are we running to an airline that other airlines are running from?

More airlines have joined ALPA than left in the last few years. There are no serious decert campaigns going on right now.

where does the 3 million that NPA has in the bank go? ALPA NATIONAL?

I already answered that for you in the other thread that you started: it stays in our own MEC accounts. Part of it will go into a special merger fund so we never have to be assessed in the case of a merger, and the rest will go in the Special MEC Reserve Account (basically the savings account).

 

[scarlet]

More airlines have join ALPA in the last few years= OK Colgan...Skywest said no thanks..

PCL gettting a contract with ALPA resources you guys brag about= How many YEARS has it been. 3-5 years for the pinnacle pilots? ALPA is strong arming the management right?

Yeah ask the DAL pilots about their MEC power, Midwest MEC? UAL MEC? CAL MEC?

 

[PCL_128]

More airlines have join ALPA in the last few years= OK Colgan...Skywest said no thanks..

Colgan, Commutair, Capital Cargo, Evergreen, etc...

PCL gettting a contract with ALPA resources you guys brag about= How many YEARS has it been. 3-5 years for the pinnacle pilots? ALPA is strong arming the management right?

We're about to set the record for longest contract negotiations in RLA history here with the NPA, and you want to talk about how long the PCL guys have been negotiating? At least they're close to getting an agreement. We've only TA'd 5 crappy sections.

Yeah ask the DAL pilots about their MEC power, Midwest MEC? UAL MEC? CAL MEC?

I think you'd find that the vast majority of the pilots at those airlines are pretty happy with their ALPA representation and wouldn't want anything to do with an independent union.