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now they finally pay attention.

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Caveman said:
Oh. I get it. If you're a legacy guy with a backpack it must be for a 'legitimate' (wink, wink) reason. But if it's a regional youngster they're just unprofessional, because we all know there's no way a regional puke could be carrying a backpack for a 'legitimate' (wink, wink) reason.
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Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I've encountered a number of guys that carry backpacks at the legacy level, and they are all NDBs or used to carry their laptop/running clothes...or a combination thereof.

I never said the regional guys carrying backpacks aren't carrying it for legitimate reasons- in fact I've flown with more legacy guys that carry them than I ever saw regional guys carrying them. I always thought the backpack stereotype was a stupid one from the jealous older guys that got stuck at the regional level.
 
I've flown with all types and not seen any correlation between airmanship and a crisply ironed shirt. In fact some of the worst pilots dressed the image of the airline pilot to a T. Especially the old guys. They thought they knew everything even when they were absolutely wrong and unsafe. Ego couldn't bear to be corrected. Give me an ipod-wearing spiky-haired young guy who actually pays attention and is part of the team. Standing around polishing your cuff-links in the mirror and practicing your Chuck Yeager PA voice doesn't make you a professional.
 
Brody1 said:
I agree with you. Realistically, however, we know that very little will change. 10K idiot captains will still slip through the cracks- it happens all the time. Would raising the minimums have prevented this accident. Maybe- or maybe not. In my experience, I think 2500 hrs is not enough.
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Just out of curiosity...what would be enough?
 
BrickTop said:
Not speaking about 3407 yet but this is why I've lost my sanity. For F#&K sake get rid of the G0damn hairgell and ipods. Quit plastering yourselves on overnights, iron that f*&ing garbage bag looking shirt, take off those ridiculous designer shades and read a f&*king manual from time to time! Above all wipe that MTV nurtured Ed Hardy wearing sense of entitlement of your front bumper and grill before I mop the floors of the lavatory with your test tube rejected a$$. I've had it...
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I agree with your general sentiment but please, tell us what are not "designer sunglasses". Do you think all pilots should wear Serengeti's or those stupid Ray Ban Aviators? Besides, who gives a rat's ass about sunglasses? They're normally worn out of sight of the passengers. If you're wearing any sunglasses in the terminal, then you have other issues than your choice in the brand of sunglasses.

I know, there are bigger fish to fry. I am just curious as to why some sunglasses bothers you.
 
ackattacker said:
I've flown with all types and not seen any correlation between airmanship and a crisply ironed shirt. In fact some of the worst pilots dressed the image of the airline pilot to a T. Especially the old guys. They thought they knew everything even when they were absolutely wrong and unsafe. Ego couldn't bear to be corrected. Give me an ipod-wearing spiky-haired young guy who actually pays attention and is part of the team. Standing around polishing your cuff-links in the mirror and practicing your Chuck Yeager PA voice doesn't make you a professional.
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Exactly!!!!
 
Bottom line with a lot of flying positions not just the regionals....you pay peanuts, you get a circus!!!!!
 
ackattacker said:
I've flown with all types and not seen any correlation between airmanship and a crisply ironed shirt. In fact some of the worst pilots dressed the image of the airline pilot to a T. Especially the old guys. They thought they knew everything even when they were absolutely wrong and unsafe. Ego couldn't bear to be corrected. Give me an ipod-wearing spiky-haired young guy who actually pays attention and is part of the team. Standing around polishing your cuff-links in the mirror and practicing your Chuck Yeager PA voice doesn't make you a professional.
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Couldn't agree more. Give me a backpack wearer who takes their job seriously instead of a well-dressed trust-fund baby who is absolutely no help in the cockpit. The ipod, designer shade types are generally part of a younger generation. Some can fly- some can't. Say what you want, but the definition of 'professionalism' varies from generation to generation. I want an FO who pulls their weight, and (thankfully) most of them do.
 
waka said:
I agree with your general sentiment but please, tell us what are not "designer sunglasses". Do you think all pilots should wear Serengeti's or those stupid Ray Ban Aviators? Besides, who gives a rat's ass about sunglasses? They're normally worn out of sight of the passengers. If you're wearing any sunglasses in the terminal, then you have other issues than your choice in the brand of sunglasses.

I know, there are bigger fish to fry. I am just curious as to why some sunglasses bothers you.
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I dont give who makes your sunglasses but take them of your damn head in the terminals.
 
JimmyKool said:
"Federal investigators hammered Colgan Air executives about the pay of their pilots — in 24-year-old Shaw's case, she made between $16,000 and $20,000 a year, according to testimony — as well as whether they were discouraged from getting second jobs and felt pressure by the company not to call in sick."
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Don't worry. All this stuff will be forgotten by next week.

The only thing that may come out of all this testimony will be a "box-checking" stick pusher demo in the sim (Q400 only).
 
spitfire1500 said:
Just out of curiosity...what would be enough?
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The problem is much more complex than meets the eye. Total time can range from nearly all VFR, to including mountain flying, cold weather and icing, etc. Does one want someone who flew out of base as an FO where the wx was mild most of the year, to upgrade in the northeast or the Rockies? Our current seniority system allows for this, and I've seen enough people upgrade who were unprepared for the transition. Ideally, we should all be aware of our limitations and not put ourselves in a situation where we don't have enough experience to draw from. We all know it doesn't work that way. We would have to make some major changes to the current system to ensure that 2500 hr VFR pilots don't upgrade and go to a base that has is far more challenging than they're used to. Again, we all know this won't happen.

To answer your question, I honestly don't know how many hrs of total time would be enough. It depends on the individual, and therein lies the problem.
 
The terminal today is no different than a hallway in high school. It's filled with clique, immature pilots that dont' even have the courtesy say "hello" back to you.
It's all about looking the coolest. Kind of hard to be serious about your job when all you care about is how you look to other pilots or FA's.
 
Or how about enforcing current requirements for an ATP? Of particular interest, "Of good moral character." Thank God there is no cut clear definition of "good moral character" because if there was, I can count quite a few guys who should never have been granted an ATP.
 
Browntothebone said:
When regional pilots start acting like professionals then you can make that argument. These two were hardly "professional" pilots.
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People in every walk of life and in every profession will do what ever they can get away with. This is a problem with lack of leadership.

This is so much more prevalent with regional carriers today because management is so wrapped around the axle with cutting cost that they have no more quality leadership.
 
Airmanship has nothing to do with having a crisply pressed shirt. As I was told during military flight training, "we can teach a monkey to fly, what we need are people who can think and make decisions." You are a risk manager.

Looking presentable is just a small piece of the puzzle we call professionalism.

Remember it starts with YOU. You are the face of your airline.
 
NJAPLT said:
Professional pilots deserve a professional wage.
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These clowns weren't professionals.

Edit: Sorry, Just realized Browntothebone made the same comment.
 
Who gives a flying ******************** what they look like or If they say hi to you in the hallways girls.. would you rather have a doushbag who can fly? or someone who presses there shirt.. and cant...
 
cheerios2 said:
Who gives a flying ******************** what they look like or If they say hi to you in the hallways girls.. would you rather have a doushbag who can fly? or someone who presses there shirt.. and cant...
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That's actually a pretty tough call.

I mean, it would be awesome to fly with someone like Dave Matthews or Will Farrell for a month, and I'm pretty sure they suck at flying.

Are these dooshes from Riddle?
 
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I agree... stop taking jobs for that pay and the pay will go up. I turned down that crap pay in 1993 and have had a great corporate career since.
 
cheerios2 said:
Who gives a flying ******************** what they look like or If they say hi to you in the hallways girls.. would you rather have a doushbag who can fly? or someone who presses there shirt.. and cant...
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Funny that we need to CHOOSE now. It used to be that the flying public got both for the same price.
 
If anyone has a problem with "unprofessional pilots" then do you stop them in the airport and tell them to their face that their shirt is wrinkled or that they need to shave, cut their hair and put on their hat? Do all you guys even wear your hats? Do you write professional standards? What is the professional standard these days?! Everything is so pluralistic that no one follows the many of the uniform rules or enforces them! IE... Most people at ASA do not wear the hat.

The truth is the regionals let this stuff go because they know how poorly they treat us. If we want the industry to change, we need to police it ourselves with common courtesy and professional manor. Delta holds their pilot group to the highest standard and they get paid more for that.

Bitching on FI won't change anything... IE. slandoring pilots behind their back does nothing to make them a better person. If a person don't try to make a pilot a better person by geniunly sharing concern for lack of professionalism than don't bother b*tching on here at all.

Change the problem, don't whine about it... I know we have a lot of time on our hands, but how old is this subject?
 
these two were hardly professional pilots
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by brown to the bone..

I see alot of older legacy pilots with big ol bellys hanging over their belts....not all , but I see plenty...is this unprofessional too? can you be a fatslob, wear a starched shirt, be a good pilot and still be professional?
 
I would suggest the training department do the right thing and can some of these pilots, the CPs would do well. But last and surely not least, the Captain needs to set the standard for the cockpit.

If it takes you 108 hrs of IOE and three checkrides to figure out a how to fly a jet, you need to go back and get more time and more book time would help too.
 

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