Nov 1st NJA? whats up???

[DC-4]

Pervis
Thank you for not spreading rumors none of us need that. Also I understand why you would not use names. I would not want you to anyways, for the same reason I do not. But if you do not mind keep us informed the best you can plz.

 

[gunfyter]

I think there is an even money chance that when recalls happen... We on the line will find out after people being recalled tell us that its happened.

So keep US informed.


That reflects my opinion of the information flow around here.

 

[OPECJet]

There is a rumor that the union is telling active pilots that less than "x" percentage of furloughed pilots would accept a recall.

For the record, IF this is being said, the union would not have this information as furloughed pilots have not been polled. If recall letters went out tomorrow, I'd bank on 60% accepting at a minimum based on what I see on the furloughed message boards.

IF a union official were to tell you this number, PLEASE call bullspit and ask him to cite his source. This is in no way, shape or form is an accusation to the union, just something that needs to be put to bed

 

[BuckMurdock1]

There is a rumor that the union is telling active pilots that less than "x" percentage of furloughed pilots would accept a recall.

For the record, IF this is being said, the union would not have this information as furloughed pilots have not been polled. If recall letters went out tomorrow, I'd bank on 60% accepting at a minimum based on what I see on the furloughed message boards.

IF a union official were to tell you this number, PLEASE call bullspit and ask him to cite his source. This is in no way, shape or form is an accusation to the union, just something that needs to be put to bed

What would be the point of this if true?! The union allowing line pilots to feel less guilty about extending on trips?? The only way to know how many will accept is to actually offer recall.

 

[pilotyip]

There is a rumor that the union is telling active pilots that less than "x" percentage of furloughed pilots would accept a recall.

For the record, IF this is being said, the union would not have this information as furloughed pilots have not been polled. If recall letters went out tomorrow, I'd bank on 60% accepting at a minimum based on what I see on the furloughed message boards.

IF a union official were to tell you this number, PLEASE call bullspit and ask him to cite his source. This is in no way, shape or form is an accusation to the union, just something that needs to be put to bed

100% of the furloughed NJ guys at JUS are planning on accepting recall because is one of the premier jobs in the flying business.

 

[billybob]

I was polled in more than one way!

They did do a poll, and they do have an idea of % of return. I don't know the number but the ebord knows and it would be stupid to say anything durning section 6.

To that end the only way to know is a recall

 

[BuckMurdock1]

I was polled in more than one way!

They did do a poll, and they do have an idea of % of return. I don't know the number but the ebord knows and it would be stupid to say anything durning section 6.

To that end the only way to know is a recall

Oh-- okay; I get it. Union says to MGMT during section 6 negotiations "look; only 10% of the furloughed even want to come back! This job isn't the cheesecake gig it once was! You're behind the times and the industry, so you better pay us more before you have a staffing shortage."

..Something like that?

Sorry-- forgot to think politically and how one side always trys to gain leverage (real or imagined) for a moment. Maybe cause it's Christmas.
Btw, Merry Christmas

 

[VGerect]

Oh-- okay; I get it. Union says to MGMT during section 6 negotiations "look; only 10% of the furloughed even want to come back! This job isn't the cheesecake gig it once was! You're behind the times and the industry, so you better pay us more before you have a staffing shortage."

Buck, I've been thinking along those lines but let me throw out a few other thoughts.

1.) If the Union NC was using this 10% thing to bolster their position at the negotiating table, why would they let it get outside of the NC to the stewards and others?

2.) If the Union NC were considering concessions to the furloughed group in order the make gains for the active group, would you not start by saying that "only 10% are planning to return" in order to justify giving away the furloughed group? i.e.- They're not coming back, so they really don't matter and we shouldn't expend negotiating capital on a few guys who have been gone for 4 years.

3.) Since this 10% issue appears to have started with a union steward holding a very public discussion about this in Denver, why hasn't the union made a statement to the contrary? When a union official speaks publicly, he's representing the union- not his own personal opinion. It would seem that njasap wants this 10% information out there, however they don't want to publicly release survey data.

4.) If any pilots do get recalled, the first group would now be on year 8 pay after 4 years on furlough. If the company could get the union to agree on changing the recall provisions to bring back guys on year 4 pay, there's a monetary value to that. There's an even bigger monetary value to dumping the furloughed guys completely.

5.) The average line pilot would crawl over his dying mother to screw another pilot out of a dollar or a seniority number. I don't trust the average line pilot's intelligence or ethics to discern between negotiating rhetoric and being led to give up junior pilots contractual right for their own personal benefit.

Any other ideas?

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Buck, I've been thinking along those lines but let me throw out a few other thoughts.

1.) If the Union NC was using this 10% thing to bolster their position at the negotiating table, why would they let it get outside of the NC to the stewards and others?

2.) If the Union NC were considering concessions to the furloughed group in order the make gains for the active group, would you not start by saying that "only 10% are planning to return" in order to justify giving away the furloughed group? i.e.- They're not coming back, so they really don't matter and we shouldn't expend negotiating capital on a few guys who have been gone for 4 years.

3.) Since this 10% issue appears to have started with a union steward holding a very public discussion about this in Denver, why hasn't the union made a statement to the contrary? When a union official speaks publicly, he's representing the union- not his own personal opinion. It would seem that njasap wants this 10% information out there, however they don't want to publicly release survey data.

4.) If any pilots do get recalled, the first group would now be on year 8 pay after 4 years on furlough. If the company could get the union to agree on changing the recall provisions to bring back guys on year 4 pay, there's a monetary value to that. There's an even bigger monetary value to dumping the furloughed guys completely.

5.) The average line pilot would crawl over his dying mother to screw another pilot out of a dollar or a seniority number. I don't trust the average line pilot's intelligence or ethics to discern between negotiating rhetoric and being led to give up junior pilots contractual right for their own personal benefit.

Any other ideas?

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if some or all of these scenarios have been floated both internally at NJASAP and perhaps 'backchannel' floated to MGMT. You are damn right that one thing pilots can be assured to do is eat their young. Hate to say it; nature of the beast.
If the above item #4 scenario actually comes to pass, you can be very assured of a sh*tstorm of lawsuits -both individual and class-action- against both NJASAP and NJA. Whether winnable or not, this will be very public in the media and generally not good for NJA's image.
Another thing pilots can be assured to do; not simply lie there whilst getting sh*t on.

 

[billybob]

I don't know what was said with 10%. I don't know the real number but from the guys that have the number "well north of that ". It's over 50% guys but less than 80.

Merry Christmas everyone

Sorry for starting this blasted thread!