Not so fast AirTran

[FarginDooshbahg]

I never said anything about your pilot group idiot.

I never said I worked for Air Tran. My "pilot group" is a 4 person flight department.

I guess "idiot" would be appropriate, especially when the shoe fits.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Also SWA indicated that they would like our gates and are jets. Their history is one of taking people with aircraft.

Ask a Muse Air pilot about Southwest taking people with airplanes.

 

[atafan]

Finally, who ever said that just because AAI is offering cash to ATA for gate leases and slots at LGA and DCA automatically entitles you to a job with Air Tran? Typical.

I don't think I read anywhere that any ATA pilot felt that we were entitled to anything! I don't expect anything from AirTran pilots, they are just part of the machine like me.

If 80% of ATA's operation is gutted where do you think the aircraft and pilots will go - The street, that's where!

You and your 4 pilot group aren't even part of this, so just mind your own business, or at least pretend to care about someone other than yourself!

 

[AFcitrus]

I am not a finance or business professional but I did listen to our earnings call yesterday. (and I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night) It seems to me by the statements that were made by our CEO, President and CFO that this deal has already been tacitly approved by all of the required parties (Chicago airport authority, creditors, Bankruptcy court, ATSB).

One thing I do know is that Airtran management is EXTREMELY conservative and intelligent. They are not going to make an official announcement to the industry unless they are pretty darn sure it is going to happen. That's not to say this deal won't fall through but it is highly unlikely. On the other hand, maybe this is just a smoke screen to cover up something bigger that Airtran is pulling off.

As for SWA - I've been hearing rumors about SWA, MDW and ATA for a long time. If that merger/acquisition were going to happen it would have happened this time. ATA does have a say in who they do business with and apparently SWA isn't it.

For the record I hope we interview and hire all of ATA's 737 pilots.

 

[flyhard]

I never said I worked for Air Tran. My "pilot group" is a 4 person flight department.

I guess "idiot" would be appropriate, especially when the shoe fits.

Hey DooshBag,

In your case I guess the name fits. When you become a MAJOR airline pilot with the rest of the people in this discussion, then you can talk about who gets what. By the sounds of it with a whole four people in your flight department (if thats what you call four people) you have a ways to go brother.

The fact is, us, the pilots of ATA have a long road ahead. I can say, as I am about to go down this road, I am walking with the best group of pilots in the world.

 

[Pickle]

Hose A. Jiminez said: "A history that they do not wish to repeat. Preferential interview at best."

The fragmentation section of the ATA pilot contract would require the pilots to go with the 737s. Of course, this being a CH11 proceeding now, I guess that as well as everything else is subject to deletion.

But thanks for your support!

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey DooshBag,

In your case I guess the name fits. When you become a MAJOR airline pilot with the rest of the people in this discussion, then you can talk about who gets what. By the sounds of it with a whole four people in your flight department (if thats what you call four people) you have a ways to go brother.

Maybe you should take a couple of deep breaths, step away from the keyboard, and go get yourself some air.

Being a MAJOR airline pilot with a bus pass will get you a bus ride, if you can keep your mouth shut as you board the bus. . .

What type of airplane someone flys, or who they fly it for, has little to nothing to do with their ability to form opinions.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

Hey D!ckhead,

I've BEEN a "MAJOR" (ooohhh, that's sound SO SPECIAL) airline pilot. At an airline far more MAJOR than ATA. I'm really sorry you are suffering from the mistakes of your management. Just as we ALL are. But I can talk about "who gets what" whenever I feel like it, whether it agrees with YOU or not. It's a shame you think your MAJOR airline pilot status puts you so far up the intellectual food chain.

The "road" you are about to go down, I have been down several times. Also with the "best group of pilots in the world". Don't presume to know so much all the time. It's unseemly to both yourself AND that great group of pilots you walk with.

 

[flyhard]

Webb,

I do not think that post was directed at you but hey thanks for the reply. I would think with 1700 posts is a bit hypocritcal in telling someone to keep their mouth shut. I do not think I said anything about what doosh flies, I could truly care less.

Dooshbag,

The fact I used MAJOR was a joke, even if you flew at a more MAJOR airline than my MAJOR airline, wow. I can say now that I am truly impressed. I don't think I made any statement about what I know, but hey it sounded cool in the reply right? And "unseemly" right.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Hose A. Jiminez said: "A history that they do not wish to repeat. Preferential interview at best."

The fragmentation section of the ATA pilot contract would require the pilots to go with the 737s. Of course, this being a CH11 proceeding now, I guess that as well as everything else is subject to deletion.

But thanks for your support!

If a SWA merger happens, I hope all of the good guys get hired. If the pilots are contractually connected to the airplanes I doubt the merger will happen. The success of SWA is largely due to the people they have hired. They know that and they will want to take a look at each and every person.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

I think, if it weren't for this website, you would see pilots wrestling in airport terminals now and then...

 

[FLB717]

Pass the Hotdog Marge, them boys gettin ready to rummble!

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

I don't think I made any statement about what I know, but hey it sounded cool in the reply right? And "unseemly" right.

Well, as long as you understand that you can be cool AND unseemly at the same time, then you're alright by me.

Besides, what do I know? I'm just a Dooshbahg. Fargin Dooshbahg, of the Massapequa Dooshbahgs.

 

[mad691]

AWA chief explains ATA bid

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/1028amwestside.html


AWA apparently won't take over ATA

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/1026atabankruptcy26-OL.html

AWA cutting flights, growth plans as profits sink

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/1028amwest280.html

 

[717capt]

AFcitrus,
You may be more right than you know..
You are correct. AirTran management has always been tight lipped about future plans, expansion, new routes, etc.... now all of a sudden it's been, "were gonna do this" and "were gonna do that". etc... Hell I even saw in print an interview with Farnaro who stated we are going to base 13 737's and 8 717's in MDW by this winter... Were gonna fly here and there and there and here... Got me thinking.. maybe it is a smoke screen. Maybe there is a set up... someone posted on another thread that maybe AWA and Southwest would get into a bidding war for MDW so they can drive the price up and force AirTran to increase the amount of money it already offered...sort of a way to get us to spend more.. Well again got me thinking.. that works both ways.... Could it be that Airtran is expecting that to happen and suppose WN offers say 120 million bucks... Airtran could say ok all yours and get WN to spend money... Just thinking out loud... also another person posted on this thread that southwest would love PHL if USAir goes tits up... Well so would a lot of other airlines AirTran included.. maybe thats what this is all about... It's all about PHL... yeah thats it... I've figured it out... stop the presses...

Also in reply to another person on this thread who stated he/she hopes that the ATA 737 pilots find jobs... The ATA pilots; 737, 757, 1011 already have jobs.... they have jobs with a great company and I am convinced will continue to have their jobs secure with ATA. If this MDW thing goes through with resepect to ATA/Airtran then all ATA will be doing is moving operations to IND as stated by their CEO. Will it be a displacement to the ATA guys and Gals that live in the chicago area? absolutely but I think that their jobs are secure... I dont think that the ATA management is going to shrink the company. Just redeploy.

Just my 2 cents..

 

[Pickle]

717capt said: "I am convinced will continue to have their jobs secure with ATA. If this MDW thing goes through with resepect to ATA/Airtran then all ATA will be doing is moving operations to IND as stated by their CEO"

There will be lots of jobs lost, not just pilots. The way it looks now, if the Air Tran deal is the final answer, there will only be about 300 ATA pilots left, out of the 1150 or so we have now.

 

[BigMoney]

The MorrisAir acquisition went almost seamlessly, but Herb still said, "Not again". I doubt that SWA will ever again grow by acquisition.

Good Luck boys,
BigMoney

 

[Indapool]

I doubt that SWA will ever again grow by acquisition

Latest rumor running around..SWA IS interested in "another" LCC and asked SWAPA how it would go about combining 2 seniority lists....

The "other" company is involved in this deal and it AIN'T the one that just filed Ch.11...

Going to be an interesting winter.

 

[Jim Smyth]

The Morris Air acquisition was "NOT" seemless. There were hard feelings both ways (not with me) and lawsuits were filed for senority issues. I'm sure now that most of them are all happy but in 1994 some of them were deffinately NOT! Personally I hope we dont merge/buyout anyone, always some hard feelings and someone feeling they got screwed. We have alot of airplanes coming (380 in 8 years) and slow steady growth has always been our friend. When we took Morris on (22 airplanes) it really showed and we were busting at the seems and the operation got sloppy for over a year.

 

[SWA/FO]

Aloha? Or is it AirTran

 

[CMonBoard]

I doubt that SWA will ever again grow by acquisition
Latest rumor running around..SWA IS interested in "another" LCC and asked SWAPA how it would go about combining 2 seniority lists....


Is there a credible source for this or just a rumor? Not trying to flame you, but this is starting to feel like the local gossip talking about the affair of the local insurance salesman and the principal's wife.

WN looking at buying AAInother airline: Now that WOULD be BIG news. Talk about two products that are vastly different though. Despite the obvious problems with mergers, it would make sense for WN's growth and domination.

 

[AFcitrus]

SWA and Airtran - together, WOW - now this thread has really gotten interesting. Hmm - 737-700's and 717's. I Don't see it happening.
1)There are too many differences in the way the two companies operate.
2)Senority list integration would be a "nightmare". You have two highly successful airlines - one with an upgrade time of 5-7 years and one with a 2-3 year wait. Lots of hard feelings no matter how the integration goes.

 

[mnboyev]

Well, I think the fine folks from ATA should have preferential hiring for 'whoever' is picking up the pieces at the bankruptcy sale. And I would bet they will at the end of the day.. Alot of trained and professional folks over at the windy city.

Its gonna be hard for the other strapped airlines to put up 90 mil for routes and operations at MDW. (except SWA/JB).?? I understand HP didnt offer any dough? I thought we were cheap.

The city is gonna want its take on the revenue those gates generate. They gotta pay for all those improvements at MDW somehow..If a company drops in and says they will replace jobs with some sort of 'guarantee' based on size of the operation, I'm pretty sure the city would go for it. What the mayor wants vs what he gets are two very different animals. The judge and lawyers will dictate what is best in the end.....

Nobody has called to ask for my advice.. How bout you guys..??
Good Luck to all affected... This industry should go to one list .... Too much time and energy is spent 'getting there' to have it slip away due to competetive debacles. Just random thoughts.... very random

All doors closed.. On Time....

 

[HarleyGuy]

Friend of mine at SWA said their DFW rampers were out measuring parking spots for 73-800s last week. And SWA just took out a $350 million(or $380m depending on who you listen to) bond without stating publicly why. So far George hasn't said word one about airplanes. Hmmmmmmm......

 

[flyhard]

I do know that any merger is never a love fest in any way. But saying that, I commute on SWA and am treated like one of their own every single time. I could go on and on about stories I have that either the pilots, F/As or gate agents have helped me get home or get to work. The relationship between ATA and SWA pilot groups is probably as good as it gets in this dog eat dog airline business.

Now back to the reguarly scheduled rumors.

 

[T1bubba]

Friend of mine at SWA said their DFW rampers ......

We have rampers at DFW? I must be completely out of the loop...

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

We have rampers at DFW? I must be completely out of the loop...

 

[T45Flyer]

SWA and Airtran rumor is just that..a rumor. The rumor has it Gary Kelly had all of the chiefs together and asked them to be ready for anything, including merging senority lists. I honestly belive that GK was just stiring the pot, motivating his team and letting everybody know that its "Go Time".

I do feel that we are getting ready to make a move on some markets. I am betting that SWA is making a serious effort to get ATA's -800 because that NG aircraft is definitely the future of SWA. A Asst' Chief pilot told me the other day that we are also looking at some round dial -300's that we found and might make an offer on those. What ever we do, we will need more airplanes fast to do it. That being said, the SWA has said that the the 737NG is our aircraft of the future and I believe we prefer those over -300's.

As far as the ATA guys go, I have not heard much in the way of bringing them on the property as a whole group. It has nothing to do about ATA, I believe that the company learned a tough lesson from the Morris deal. The lawsuits and disgruntled employees are a very high price to pay. I personally have been treated great by every ATA pilot I have met and hope that they find a secure job here at SWA they want to be here, I would love to fly with them.

 

[flynlow]

Another empty promise?

ATA, AirTran vow to retain Midway jobs


By Julie Johnsson

ATA CEO George Mikelsons

Executives from ATA Airlines Inc. and AirTran Airways promised Chicago Mayor Richard Daley that there won’t be any large-scale layoffs of ATA’s 3,200 employees at Midway International Airport.
Florida-based AirTran said it would assume control of ATA’s Midway operations, which currently account for about half of the planes landing and departing the airport on Chicago’s Southwest side.

Mayor Daley says ATA CEO George Mikelsons and AirTran executives gave him “their good word” that they would keep ATA’s local workforce intact during a meeting yesterday.
“This helps Chicago,” the mayor said at a press conference Friday morning. “We won’t lose any jobs.”

He added that the fate of ATA’s planned $100-million training center near Midway was one of the items still to be decided as city officials continue negotiations with the low-fare airline. “We’re still working on that,” he added.

Representatives of ATA and AirTran couldn’t be reached for comment.

Any deal between the airlines requires approval by U.S. Bankruptcy Court; ATA filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Tuesday.

 

[ultrarunner]

If the would-be buyers were smart, they would all get together and simply wait it out...ATA will go Chaper 7, then each airline can go in there and buy what they want at a far better deal.

If it were my money, I'd wait for Chapter 7. Any deals made before Chapter 7 will be for too much money, IMO.