Not so fast AirTran

[Jetjockey]

Southwest Air plans Chicago expansion due to ATA

Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:35 AM ET

DALLAS, Oct 28 (Reuters) - Southwest Airlines Chief Executive Gary Kelly said on Thursday his carrier plans to step up operations in Chicago due to ATA's bankruptcy, and Southwest may bid on some of ATA's assets.
Kelly said Southwest will start adding flights in Chicago from the first quarter of 2005. He also said the carrier is looking at bidding on the Boeing 737-800 planes in ATA's fleet.

"There is no desire on our part to stand still in Chicago," Kelly told reporters.

 

[NZCHooverboy]

You mean how would we feel

about flying their routes while they train our replacements? Thank God for Daley and Doug Parker. This AI deal is not in our best interest.

Also SWA indicated that they would like our gates and are jets. Their history is one of taking people with aircraft.

I like the AI pilots, but am wary of their management's plans.

 

[tz800ca]

What's the feeling among the pilots and other employees at TZ re: the current facts?
Are you thinking a deal with AirTran for wet leasing would be a positive or a negative?
Would you leave sooner than later and apply at AirTran?
Would you rather sit out and wait until another carrier makes a different offer?

This is all just speculation, as I'm sure you won't get a call during dinner asking your opinion on this one...I'm just curious what you think.

The emotions run the gammit. Most are relieved that Ge0rge is not in control anymore, all are scared and uncertain. Lots of speculation on the union webboard right now.

As for the facts and AirTran, it is definately looked at as a big huge NEGATIVE on this property unless your name is Ge0rge. Ge0rge is taking care of Ge0rge and the folks that work for him in IND with this deal; to heck with Chicago and those that work there. The FL wet-lease signals no inclination to take any flightcrews or airframes, just to fill the void until they get their people and equipment in place.

Time will tell, but IMO, the FL offer has little chance getting by the Judge. The only party it is good for is FL and Ge0rge. Boeing and the related leasing companies stand to loose big on this one and I cannot see them being happy with FL or anyone else for that matter not taking or offering at the 30-50 airframes that could get parked, not to mention the thousands of employees in the Chicago market that stand to loose their jobs. This has a long way to go before the final curtain call.

Most have already applied to all the usual airlines that are hiring, with mixed results. My feeling now is that it would be best to sit tight and see what happens.

Good luck to all.

As a side note, I have not run into a finer group of people than those ex-TWA people we have on the property. I have flown, commuted, and conversed with several of you in the last 1-2 years and cannot remember a finer group of true Professionals. I will always hold you people and your former employer in the highest regard.

 

[Ty Webb]

If I was an ATA pilot, I would not be happy about this either.

The only good thing about the deal is that at least AirTran would have to contract with ATA to keep flying the routes for a while, whereas if the gates and slots get divvied up to, say, NWA, CAL, SWA and AWA, they could start operating them on their own immediately, and that flying would just disappear immediately for the ATA crews.

As far as Boeing being "upset" with AirTran . . . . Boeing is the largest shareholder of AirTran stock, and we are one of the few US passenger carriers taking delivery of new Boeings right now.

Regardless, we all know that it is a lousy situation for the ATA folks. Maybe a better offer will come along.

 

[MDP727]

I don't think the airtran deal even has a chance. The bankruptcy judge has to take care of the creditors and the atsb loan is a big factor. AWA has stated they would assume the atsb loan and ATA debt. Oh and bring the employees. Because AWA or SWA didn't make offers first doesn't mean **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**. I wouldn't make the first offer either, they both have 60 days from the filing to make offers.

On a positive note GM is out of the drivers seat now! He can make deals with whomever he wants and it doesn't amount to a hill a beans. For 31 years these working stiffs at this airline have been making him rich--flying airplanes to airports other US carriers don't know exist, with the best safety record. In the end it's break one off in your ass time. We see whos out for who.

I read the airtran mec letter to the pilot group. Not even a fart about hiring us or even preferential interviews. Thanks!

 

[CaptSeth]

flying airplanes to airports other US carriers don't know exist, with the best safety record. In the end it's break one off in your ass time. We see whos out for who.

I read the airtran mec letter to the pilot group. Not even a fart about hiring us or even preferential interviews. Thanks!

I couldn't agree more. We have sixty days now to see what plays out. Sit tight, it'll be a wild ride.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

.

I read the airtran mec letter to the pilot group. Not even a fart about hiring us or even preferential interviews. Thanks!

While I understand everyone's hurt, fear and bitternerss, how about a dose of reality? First of all Air Tran doesn't have an "MEC", they have a "BOD". Second, do you think, even for a moment, that the Air Tran pilots were contacted about their approval, denial or input with regards to this deal? Were YOU and YOUR pilot group consulted by YOUR management. He11 no. They do what they want to do, WITHOUT consulting ANY pilots. So why you feel the need to take your anger out on the Air Tran pilots I guess is just a relection of yourself. Maybe you should look in the mirror.

Finally, who ever said that just because AAI is offering cash to ATA for gate leases and slots at LGA and DCA automatically entitles you to a job with Air Tran? Typical.

If you have a b1tch with this deal, then you should take it up with the ones who made it. YOUR company management and that of Air Tran. Taking it out on another pilot group that had absolutely ZERO input in this is typically asinine. And typically self-centered. WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEEEEE?????

 

[MDP727]

I never said anything about your pilot group idiot.

 

[tz800ca]

As far as Boeing being "upset" with AirTran . . . . Boeing is the largest shareholder of AirTran stock, and we are one of the few US passenger carriers taking delivery of new Boeings right now.

Good point, bad choice of words on my part. I do not believe anyone should be upset with FL, it is just business. Looks like FL is not going to be the only dog in this hunt, it will interesting.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Also SWA indicated that they would like our gates and are jets. Their history is one of taking people with aircraft.

QUOTE]

A history that they do not wish to repeat. Preferential interview at best.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

I never said anything about your pilot group idiot.

I never said I worked for Air Tran. My "pilot group" is a 4 person flight department.

I guess "idiot" would be appropriate, especially when the shoe fits.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Also SWA indicated that they would like our gates and are jets. Their history is one of taking people with aircraft.

Ask a Muse Air pilot about Southwest taking people with airplanes.

 

[atafan]

Finally, who ever said that just because AAI is offering cash to ATA for gate leases and slots at LGA and DCA automatically entitles you to a job with Air Tran? Typical.

I don't think I read anywhere that any ATA pilot felt that we were entitled to anything! I don't expect anything from AirTran pilots, they are just part of the machine like me.

If 80% of ATA's operation is gutted where do you think the aircraft and pilots will go - The street, that's where!

You and your 4 pilot group aren't even part of this, so just mind your own business, or at least pretend to care about someone other than yourself!

 

[AFcitrus]

I am not a finance or business professional but I did listen to our earnings call yesterday. (and I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night) It seems to me by the statements that were made by our CEO, President and CFO that this deal has already been tacitly approved by all of the required parties (Chicago airport authority, creditors, Bankruptcy court, ATSB).

One thing I do know is that Airtran management is EXTREMELY conservative and intelligent. They are not going to make an official announcement to the industry unless they are pretty darn sure it is going to happen. That's not to say this deal won't fall through but it is highly unlikely. On the other hand, maybe this is just a smoke screen to cover up something bigger that Airtran is pulling off.

As for SWA - I've been hearing rumors about SWA, MDW and ATA for a long time. If that merger/acquisition were going to happen it would have happened this time. ATA does have a say in who they do business with and apparently SWA isn't it.

For the record I hope we interview and hire all of ATA's 737 pilots.

 

[flyhard]

I never said I worked for Air Tran. My "pilot group" is a 4 person flight department.

I guess "idiot" would be appropriate, especially when the shoe fits.

Hey DooshBag,

In your case I guess the name fits. When you become a MAJOR airline pilot with the rest of the people in this discussion, then you can talk about who gets what. By the sounds of it with a whole four people in your flight department (if thats what you call four people) you have a ways to go brother.

The fact is, us, the pilots of ATA have a long road ahead. I can say, as I am about to go down this road, I am walking with the best group of pilots in the world.

 

[Pickle]

Hose A. Jiminez said: "A history that they do not wish to repeat. Preferential interview at best."

The fragmentation section of the ATA pilot contract would require the pilots to go with the 737s. Of course, this being a CH11 proceeding now, I guess that as well as everything else is subject to deletion.

But thanks for your support!

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey DooshBag,

In your case I guess the name fits. When you become a MAJOR airline pilot with the rest of the people in this discussion, then you can talk about who gets what. By the sounds of it with a whole four people in your flight department (if thats what you call four people) you have a ways to go brother.

Maybe you should take a couple of deep breaths, step away from the keyboard, and go get yourself some air.

Being a MAJOR airline pilot with a bus pass will get you a bus ride, if you can keep your mouth shut as you board the bus. . .

What type of airplane someone flys, or who they fly it for, has little to nothing to do with their ability to form opinions.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

Hey D!ckhead,

I've BEEN a "MAJOR" (ooohhh, that's sound SO SPECIAL) airline pilot. At an airline far more MAJOR than ATA. I'm really sorry you are suffering from the mistakes of your management. Just as we ALL are. But I can talk about "who gets what" whenever I feel like it, whether it agrees with YOU or not. It's a shame you think your MAJOR airline pilot status puts you so far up the intellectual food chain.

The "road" you are about to go down, I have been down several times. Also with the "best group of pilots in the world". Don't presume to know so much all the time. It's unseemly to both yourself AND that great group of pilots you walk with.

 

[flyhard]

Webb,

I do not think that post was directed at you but hey thanks for the reply. I would think with 1700 posts is a bit hypocritcal in telling someone to keep their mouth shut. I do not think I said anything about what doosh flies, I could truly care less.

Dooshbag,

The fact I used MAJOR was a joke, even if you flew at a more MAJOR airline than my MAJOR airline, wow. I can say now that I am truly impressed. I don't think I made any statement about what I know, but hey it sounded cool in the reply right? And "unseemly" right.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Hose A. Jiminez said: "A history that they do not wish to repeat. Preferential interview at best."

The fragmentation section of the ATA pilot contract would require the pilots to go with the 737s. Of course, this being a CH11 proceeding now, I guess that as well as everything else is subject to deletion.

But thanks for your support!

If a SWA merger happens, I hope all of the good guys get hired. If the pilots are contractually connected to the airplanes I doubt the merger will happen. The success of SWA is largely due to the people they have hired. They know that and they will want to take a look at each and every person.