Not Paying Union Dues

[merlindrvr88]

When?

Then when the union negitiates a better contract at your airline, I hope you'll gladly demur on accepting any increase in compensation/QOL.

Name the last time that happened?????

 

[PCL_128]

Name the last time that happened?????

You can't possibly be that dense. FedEx just signed an excellent contract with the help of ALPA. UPS just signed a great contract also with representation provided by the IPA with assistance from ALPA. That's two new contracts signed within the last 6 months that were vast improvements over the previous CBAs. Does that answer your question, smart guy?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

There are too many "professional" pilots that expect the profession to serve them.... The mentality of "how can I make this profession better" doesn't exist in thier minds....

 

[CopilotDoug]

You can't possibly be that dense. FedEx just signed an excellent contract with the help of ALPA. UPS just signed a great contract also with representation provided by the IPA with assistance from ALPA. That's two new contracts signed within the last 6 months that were vast improvements over the previous CBAs. Does that answer your question, smart guy?

While that's all fine and well for UPS and FedEx (who couldn't be more different than the airlines), what about the Regionals/majors where the Majority of airline pilots are going to be spending their careers? The fact of the matter is that ALPA is not as influential as they'd have you believe. It is my contention that ALPA is nothing more than a greedy business in it for the money. Their dues sytem should be modified so that pilots only have to pay dues if they receive a pay raise. No raise, tough sh!t ALPA.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

While that's all fine and well for UPS and FedEx (who couldn't be more different than the airlines), what about the Regionals/majors where the Majority of airline pilots are going to be spending their careers? The fact of the matter is that ALPA is not as influential as they'd have you believe. It is my contention that ALPA is nothing more than a greedy business in it for the money. Their dues sytem should be modified so that pilots only have to pay dues if they receive a pay raise. No raise, tough sh!t ALPA.

have you considered your expectations of what ALPA is, is not realisitic?

What did you think of the ALPA negotiated UAL2000 and DAL2001 contracts?

Your last comments about dues is like civil taxes for Police and Fire. As crime and fire plaque your town, you state.. until you get this crime and fire under control we aren't going to give you operating cash....

If ALPA, specifically is a greedy business, where is all of their money going? (if you are determined to say salaries then plaese do a search on this message board and get informed before you do.... education is a good thing.)

 

[GogglesPisano]

Name the last time that happened?????

The latest FedEx, SWA, and UPS contracts. World got a pay raise, too (after a strike.)

 

[CopilotDoug]

have you considered your expectations of what ALPA is, is not realisitic?

What did you think of the ALPA negotiated UAL2000 and DAL2001 contracts?

If your going to credit those contracts to ALPA you better also credit the aftermath to ALPA as well. ALPA's "success" at an airline is tied to the financial success of said airline, nothing more, nothing less (see FedEx, UPS, SWA ((which also happens to be SWAPA)) )

Your last comments about dues is like civil taxes for Police and Fire. As crime and fire plaque your town, you state.. until you get this crime and fire under control we aren't going to give you operating cash....

The reason for ALPA being born was Safety. That issue has been addressed, and continual refinements are being made. Tell me what "Crimes and Fires" are plaguing airlines today that necessitate ALPA's existence? Skywest doesn't seem to need ALPA and they're doing pretty well.

If ALPA, specifically is a greedy business, where is all of their money going? (if you are determined to say salaries then plaese do a search on this message board and get informed before you do.... education is a good thing.)

Well Martha Stewart, I know you're going to tell me it's NOT going to salaries. It's probably going to the ALPA stickers and Mousepads which are being handed out at groundschools. I'd like you to justify why Woerth receives over half a million dollars in annual compensation? Where does that salary money come from again?

 

[PCL_128]

ALPA's "success" at an airline is tied to the financial success of said airline)

Sorry, but I've gotta call bull$hit on that one. Do you really think that the pilots of DAL and UAL would have received such vast improvements in pay and benefits in contract '00 and '01 if it weren't for ALPA. Do you think UAL an DAL management would have simply given it to them out of the goodness of their hearts (hint: they don't have any)? If it weren't for ALPA fighting for the pilots at those airlines, then the billions in profits wouldn't have ever filtered down to the employees. It would have gone into even bigger bonuses for the executives, stock buy-back plans, more consultants to dream up faulty merger plans, etc... Management will never give you anything unless you fight for it, no matter how much financial success the company is enjoying.

The reason for ALPA being born was Safety. That issue has been addressed, and continual refinements are being made. Tell me what "Crimes and Fires" are plaguing airlines today that necessitate ALPA's existence?

Are you even a pilot? Pilot pushing is alive and well in this industry. I represent pilots every week that management has tried to pressure into flying unsafe airplanes, flying fatigued, flying sick, etc... Without ALPA representation and protection, pilots would still be getting fired for these things. The reason it doesn't happen on a large scale at Skywest is because management is extremely motivated to keep ALPA off of the property. They know that they'll never be able to get away with their 1% pay raises after a union shows up.

I'd like you to justify why Woerth receives over half a million dollars in annual compensation?

Get a clue. Captain Woerth never received a salary that even approached that much money. His salary was approximately $350k. The rest of the money you see listed on the anti-union sites comes from expenses. In other words, they're counting his meals, hotel rooms, taxi rides, etc... as income. How much more would your salary be if I included all of your hotel stays, training expenses, etc... in the mix? Just your benefits add an additional 30% on top of your salary. Do you consider that to be income? I didn't think so.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Sorry, but I've gotta call bull$hit on that one.

And how many industry leading contracts since then has ALPA wrestled out of management? What are ALPA's thoughts on the record setting givebacks?

Are you even a pilot? Pilot pushing is alive and well in this industry. I represent pilots every week that management has tried to pressure into flying unsafe airplanes, flying fatigued, flying sick, etc... Without ALPA representation and protection, pilots would still be getting fired for these things.

I've seen, up-close, 4 cases of ALPA style representation which I believe to be indicative of ALPA representation across the board. I need no further proof that ALPA is a bloated and inefficient union. And in one of those cases, resolution was found in the form of an AOPA attorney because the ALPA attorney "didn't have the time."

The reason it doesn't happen on a large scale at Skywest is because management is extremely motivated to keep ALPA off of the property. They know that they'll never be able to get away with their 1% pay raises after a union shows up.

I think the pilots are are the ones motivated to keep ALPA off property. And wisely so.

Get a clue. Captain Woerth never received a salary that even approached that much money. His salary was approximately $350k. The rest of the money you see listed on the anti-union sites comes from expenses. In other words, they're counting his meals, hotel rooms, taxi rides, etc... as income. How much more would your salary be if I included all of your hotel stays, training expenses, etc... in the mix? Just your benefits add an additional 30% on top of your salary. Do you consider that to be income? I didn't think so.

Did you read what I said? I used the term COMPENSATION and not SALARY for the very reasons you pointed out. My salary would be a whole lot more than 30 extra percent if I received the expenses he did. After all, he's sticking up for the pilots. I bet he stays in Super 8 motels, eats Ramen noodles at every meal, and takes the taxi cab with the really bad transmission too, just so he can stay in touch with the real pilot's lifestyle. I can't believe you'd elect such a pompous and pretentious a$$hole like him who couldn't be further out of touch with the reality of a pilot's lifestyle. You keep drinking that ALPA kool-aid, further sweetened by the same old B.S. feel good rhetoric.

 

[PCL_128]

I don't know why I even waste my time talking with such morons.

 

[TWA Dude]

I think the pilots are are the ones motivated to keep ALPA off property. And wisely so.

There are two types of airlines: those with union pilots and those that will be. Methinks there must be some reason for that. Try to figure it out on your own and you'll be happier.

 

[BoilerUP]

And how many industry leading contracts since then has ALPA wrestled out of management?

Expressjet and FedEx.

What are ALPA's thoughts on the record setting givebacks?

Are you referring to ALPA (the thousands of members) or ALPA National? On the national level I'm pretty sure Capt. Prater has said concessions are pretty much through and that ALPA will fight hard to get back what they gave up. On the member level, well you can figure out what we think about 'record setting givebacks' for yourself.

 

[CopilotDoug]

You're right PCL128, I am a moron for debating an ALPA rep such as yourself. I wouldn't expect you to part ways on your opinions, ill-conceived as they may be. I never held Union reps in high regard and you haven't changed my position. By the way, you never justified Woerth's $350,000 paycheck. I bet he'll go back to flying the line with NWA since ALPA has done so much to improve pay and working conditions there.

 

[PCL_128]

You're right PCL128, I am a moron for debating an ALPA rep such as yourself. I wouldn't expect you to part ways on your opinions, ill-conceived as they may be. I never held Union reps in high regard and you haven't changed my position.

No one will ever be able to change your position. You're the kind of guy that blames everyone else for everything. You'll never look at yourself to see if there's a problem. Have you ever volunteered for a committee? Ever run for an elected ALPA position? How many Local Council meetings have you attended? Have you voted in every election? Do you contribute to ALPA-PAC? These are the things that make a difference. Until you do all of this, then you are the problem, not ALPA. ALPA is made up of volunteers. ALPA work gets done when the membership puts their time into the cause.

By the way, you never justified Woerth's $350,000 paycheck.

Captain Woerth has averaged 21 days off a year since taking office. The rest of the time he is picketing, attending meetings, testifying on Capital Hill, lobbying for issues that affect air line pilots, etc... He is responsible for overseeing the largest union of air line pilots in the world. He has the responsibility of looking out for the careers of 66,000 members. I think his responsibility and extra work earn him a little bit more than he would make flying the line.

I bet he'll go back to flying the line with NWA since ALPA has done so much to improve pay and working conditions there.

Captain Woerth has worked his ass off for this profession for the past 18 years. I think he's deserving of a retirement.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If your going to credit those contracts to ALPA you better also credit the aftermath to ALPA as well. ALPA's "success" at an airline is tied to the financial success of said airline, nothing more, nothing less (see FedEx, UPS, SWA ((which also happens to be SWAPA)) )

So when your Mom brings home the groceries do you blame her because the fruit is sour? Does your Mom make gruit

The reason for ALPA being born was Safety. That issue has been addressed, and continual refinements are being made. Tell me what "Crimes and Fires" are plaguing airlines today that necessitate ALPA's existence? Skywest doesn't seem to need ALPA and they're doing pretty well.

What refeinements are being made. Tell what you know. ALPA was born in part of safety. It was also born in part to pilots not having PIC authority and earning a livable wage.

Well Martha Stewart, I know you're going to tell me it's NOT going to salaries. It's probably going to the ALPA stickers and Mousepads which are being handed out at groundschools. I'd like you to justify why Woerth receives over half a million dollars in annual compensation? Where does that salary money come from again?

I told you to get educated first... it is still your choice..

 

[CopilotDoug]

What refinements are being made. Tell what you know. ALPA was born in part of safety.

To touch the tip of the iceberg, cockpit automation and navigation equipment.

It was also born in part to pilots not having PIC authority and earning a livable wage.

Does ALPA contend that first year pay at ANY regional is "liveable" ?

 

[HelloNewman]

There are two types of airlines: those with union pilots and those that will be. Methinks there must be some reason for that. Try to figure it out on your own and you'll be happier.

Nah don't think it will happen anytime soon at SkyWest. If it does though I think that those who didn't vote for it won't have to pay dues. I have figured out that we are happier without one.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

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To touch the tip of the iceberg, cockpit automation and navigation equipment.

Yeah they had a part in that... but that is also of big intrest to the manufactures.... Why not try something that is primarily a ALPA issues like fatigue or LAHSO...


Does ALPA contend that first year pay at ANY regional is "liveable" ?

I guess.. I mean all the pilots at all the regionals voted yes on the contracts they are currently working under. Only then was the contract sent to ALPA national. The MEC said..this is what our pilots want..please review and sign.

So when you go to work as the pilots you are flying with "Do you contend that first year pay at THIS regional is "liveable" ?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Whatever guys. I don't need ALPA to think for me or tell me how to vote. As Newman knows, life is pretty good without ALPA. Should Skywest ever unionize, they'd be wise to have an in house union and not ALPA.

I want to leave you all with one final note: Hitler had a strong following of impressionable children, it looks like ALPA took the same approach with "less gifted" pilots. I think I hear Duane Worthless laughing his way to the bank...

Here's to not paying ALPA dues and Lovin' It !!!:beer:

 

[merlindrvr88]

Wake up!!!

No one will ever be able to change your position. You're the kind of guy that blames everyone else for everything. You'll never look at yourself to see if there's a problem. Have you ever volunteered for a committee? Ever run for an elected ALPA position? How many Local Council meetings have you attended? Have you voted in every election? Do you contribute to ALPA-PAC? These are the things that make a difference. Until you do all of this, then you are the problem, not ALPA. ALPA is made up of volunteers. ALPA work gets done when the membership puts their time into the cause.



Captain Woerth has averaged 21 days off a year since taking office. The rest of the time he is picketing, attending meetings, testifying on Capital Hill, lobbying for issues that affect air line pilots, etc... He is responsible for overseeing the largest union of air line pilots in the world. He has the responsibility of looking out for the careers of 66,000 members. I think his responsibility and extra work earn him a little bit more than he would make flying the line.



Captain Woerth has worked his ass off for this profession for the past 18 years. I think he's deserving of a retirement.

First of all, get your facts straight. 21 days off a year!!! Are you that stupid?? Second, I volunteered and it was a joke. Guys are in the union so they do not have to actually work the contract they fight for. In 18 years what has DW actually done. I have some old time USAIR pilots that would like to talk to him. I have some United and Northwest friends also that think ALPO is sh!t. He has the responsibility of looking out for 66,000 pilot jobs.

That number use to be 100,000!!! He has done a wonderful job!!

ALPO is made of volunteers!?! Are you sure??? They get something for their work, noone in this business does it for free. Why should he get more than a line pilot??? Because he negotiates crap contracts?!? He should get paid what he fights for. If he thinks a RJ Captain is worth 50,000 a year, then that is what he should earn. PM me idiot, and I could school you on ALPO and the Airline industry. Pilots were around along time before ALPO!!!!