Not enough pilots out there?

[I Hate Freight]

Wow someone has actually given a timeline. May we ask where you got that from?

Probably from his rectal depository.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

My experience:
1. Hired by regional
2. Flew the E 145
3. Quit immediately after IOE
4. Tried again with another regional 6 months later
5. Flew the CRJ 2 & 7
6. Quit again and gave up
I thought it might be different at the second airline but it was not. I felt bad for wasting the two airlines training expense at first...but then I remembered why I quit both of them. The abuse by scheduling (not their fault) along with the pi55 poor pay was just a complete exercize in futility. It is a shame that the industry has gone down the crapper. I suspect that Worthless is a big part of the problem. My .02

You must like being on probation... Why don't you stay put somewhere and quit crying. What did you expect? ...a line right away with 15 days off including weekends? Did they not tell you about pay when you interviewed?

 

[SkyNation]

of all the CAs I've flown with, the least anyone has told the make is in the mid-70K range. The highest was a super-senior check airman/sim guy who makes well over 200K. At a regional. The low end guy was a 3rd year Captain.
as a new FO at 19.02/hr., I made around 25K. This year I'll be in the upper 50K range, depending on how hard I work the rest of the year.

it's all a matter of perspective. I don't think it's a bad job for being a button pusher and staring out the window.

 

[apache]

You're funny. This guy wasn't complaining, he was making it out like his life was hell on earth. If it is that bad (working 6 days/week every week) I would just quit. I have done so in the past with previous jobs when I saw there was no hope in getting a better QOL. When there was hope, I worked with the company and got what we wanted.

No amount of complaining will help when your contract is valid for another X years. Might as well save the energy and STFU and enjoy what you have or find something different. I'm sure the company knows the QOL sucks, the union knows it, even the other pilots and FA's know it already.

I was able to make bills and save and my first year at a regional showed ~24k. So yeah, if I can make it on 24 I'm sure I'll be able to make it on 40. Thanks for your concern.

In no way am I implying I wouldn't do the job for more money. But I have to laugh at people for saying they "deserve" more money. For what? You are paid what you can neogotiate and that in part is based on what the market can bear. All the complaining won't change that fact.

And don't play the "complainers make things happen" card. I know a lot of the union officals at my airline and they are not complainers. Talk is cheap.

I don't know why I even try. Everyone figures it out eventually. All I can say is that if everyone in your pilot group had your attitude, you would actually loose money at every contract negotiation. BTW, I would say that everyone in your pilot group "deserves" more money. Unless, of course, we are talking about blowjets.

 

[wheelsup]

I don't know why I even try. Everyone figures it out eventually. All I can say is that if everyone in your pilot group had your attitude, you would actually loose money at every contract negotiation. BTW, I would say that everyone in your pilot group "deserves" more money. Unless, of course, we are talking about blowjets.

Figure what out? That I need to complain to get my way? Like a whiney kid?



<deleted>

 

[Sawmill]

Spitfire: No, I did not fly for Mesa. I flew the 145 at XJet and Ive only flown into MN once.

DirtySanchez: You are 100% correct. I apologize for my whining. From this day forward I promise to laugh all the way to the bank! To answer your questions, No, I didnt expect a line any time soon after starting...and of course I did not expect 15 days off a month (Thats half a month right? I would not expect that with any job actually) And no, they did not tell me about the pay at the interview as I recall...but I did know it long before I interviewed...What I did expect was an enjoyable job/career with compensation that I could live (modestly) off of, mainly because I talked myself into thinking that was what it would be...so the only person I have to blame is myself...that is, if I want to waste my time fixing blame rather than fixing the problem...which I did by quitting. So I apologize once again for offending you if that is what I did...I did not realize that I carried that much influence. So, please enjoy your job while flying me safely to my vacation destinations 4 times a year, while I sleep in my bed every night, while I have a life, while I earn my deserved compensation, while I fly my plane when and where I want, and I will nod at you and thank you each and every time I deplane. Blue Skies!
Seriously, we all have choices and I am completely content and happy with mine...Are you? (Dont answer out loud)

 

[Hootie9750]

The problem is truly from the rich kids out there who's parents think its neato if johnny goes off to riddle or und and gets a degree in Aeronautical Science (sounds neato and very prestigious..ooooh). I met another riddle f*g the other day who was telling me how cool it would be to work for Mesa's Go! in Hawaii. Im like "how are you going to live in Hawaii on 17g a year" and he tells me he could live on his dads yacht!! Holy Sh1t!! If I wasnt worried about an assault charge from the kids personal lawayer I would have beat him silly.

 

[Stewage]

I toiled with this for years. I was a prior military guy who did OK in the AF. The pay was great, the flying was REALLY great (C-130s), and I had always dreamed of having a life like 'The Old Days...' Just watch 'The High and the Mighty' if you want to know what I'm talking about. I have two kids now, and after bumming in the reserves for 3 years (flying KC-135s) I decided to break the chain and get a job in the aerospace world not flying. I waited for the three years, but freely admit that I wasn't willing to take a massive pay cut to the regionals with a wife and two kids. This greatly narrowed my job search!

Several of my buddies have since gotten hired by FedEx and SWA, as well as a few others. My reserve unit was closed in the latest BRAC, so I am now in the Guard, but not flying. All in all it is a personal choice. It was REALLY hard for me to give it up, however now that I have it doesn't seem so bad. I'm home every night, work for a GREAT company, with really good pay and benefits. I can't complain. Some couldn't imagine not flying. For me, flying the KC-135 was completely mind numbing compared to the C-130, so it made that choice easier (no offense to anyone reading - again a personal choice).

I wish everyone the best no matter what road they choose. It isn't the industry it used to be, to be sure. I have no idea where it is going, either.

Just wanted to throw my $.02 in.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Stewage, whereabouts do you work, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[blueridge71]

I have thought that the regionals might start hurting for qualified pilots pretty soon. Consider the facts:

1. Fractionals hiring like mad
2. Majors starting to hire again
3. Regional pay and QOL never quite finding the rock bottom
4. VLJs coming on line

There are lots of places for experienced pilots to go and not quite as many eager young pups willing to be worked like dogs for peanuts (to mix a metaphor).

Before Skywest quashed ASA's growth, hiring minimums were down to 600-1. From what I heard, quite a few captains became de facto CFIs.

 

[CopilotDoug]

All part of the growing pilot shortage which will lead to the pilot hiring boom of2007

There's also a hiring boom at a McDonalds near you...why aren't you mentioning this to everyone YIP? Chances are you'd start out with better pay and it's great job stability...

 

[Nindiri]

Sometimes I think I'm the only happy pilot out there.

 

[CopilotDoug]

and by the way...it's not a "BOOM," it's a "SPLASH" as in a turd landing in the toilet

 

[SkyNation]

Sometimes I think I'm the only happy pilot out there.

reading this board will do that to you! you're not the only one, I like my job.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Sometimes I think I'm the only happy pilot out there.

No, you'll find plenty of happy pilots over at jetcareers.com - $20k is more than enough for them to rent a few Xbox games and spruce up the bedroom they grew up in.

 

[MINIME]

Last month I had 16 days off, this month I think 14, (which gives a 4 on 3 off type schedule for the most part) most months I credit 90+ hours which now on second year pay I'll make close to 40k not including per diem which is more than livable for me right now. Would I like more money? Yes don't we all. When I was sick on probation I NEVER was threatened when I called in sick, they just said "OK I hope you get better!" and that was that. When I went to a family funeral I got the trip off WITH pay no questions asked.

If your life is seriously as bad as you are making it out to be maybe you should quit? I purposely didn't accept a position at a company that was notorious for bending people over.[/quote]

You know, good for you if you're content with your individual situation. I guess that if you can keep on getting the schedules you need, you got it made. Honestly, if you're content, all the power to you.

However, my argument is and was geared for that young pup that's just stepping into the game expecting the world of "Margaritas and Senoritas," as someone else quoted. That person who will fly for anybody at any price, as long as it's an airline job. The person who believes that the pain may only last for a couple of years. Since upgrade will follow shortly thereafter, as well as the money.

That may be true for some. It's also true that some may even get to a major before the average Joe. Then, you have those who are content with what they make because they make it work. But it's pretty clear that's simply not the norm. Especially when there's more than one mouth to feed.

My point is merely to try and educate the newcomers on the facts that they may face at a typical regional. To some it may matter. To some it may not, especially if their parent's bank accounts do the thinking for them. In any case, unless you're absolutely sure and willing to pay the price, my advice to the hopefuls is to choose other routes. Corporate, fractionals, or 135 until you're competitive for those positions. Or better yet, stay away completely if you can live without it.

In answer to your observation about my personal well being, I do just fine. Not because of aviation alone but because I'm blessed and fortunate enough to own businesses outside of aviation. So...no, I don't think I'm bitter. But if observing the downward trends that hurt my fellow pilots classify me as being "bitter" then I guess I'll proudly wear that hat.

 

[SennaP1]

The Big Quitting Boom of 2007

With all the complaining out there, I predict a big quitting boom in 2007 (do so only if you are senior to me).

"Margaritas and Senioritas?" WTF, you really think nowadays it about that? If you became a pilot so you can impress women...and get hot stews. Ain't gonna happen, and its pretty sad really that somebody would need a "uniform" to get women. And if you do, you know what they say about the company you keep, I'm sure Paris Hilton would be pretty impressed that you are a pilot.

I've come to the conclusion that some people(pilots) will complain in whatever situation and wherever they are. JetBlue, UPS, SouthWest, Xjet, Continental, all pretty good places supposedly.

Its not only this industry thats taken a hit in the last few years. Look around. Tell me what industry has improved. Oh so, you wanna be computer (something or other) well, the bottom-feeding Indians have out-sourced you for 1/4 of the price, and now they are being out-sourced by the scum-bag Chinese for even less. The out-sourcers being out-sourced, sound familiar?

All about cost. If you can't see making it on 25K First year/ 40K Second Year. Do something else, PLEASE. It's not too late. Try Real Estate, see how good that goes and how hard you work. Become that Bus Driver you keep talking about that makes equal pay. Or work at McDonald's for a while.

 

[waverider]

I have thought that the regionals might start hurting for qualified pilots pretty soon. Consider the facts:

1. Fractionals hiring like mad
2. Majors starting to hire again
3. Regional pay and QOL never quite finding the rock bottom
4. VLJs coming on line

There are lots of places for experienced pilots to go and not quite as many eager young pups willing to be worked like dogs for peanuts (to mix a metaphor).

Before Skywest quashed ASA's growth, hiring minimums were down to 600-1. From what I heard, quite a few captains became de facto CFIs.

Please define what you mean by "never quite finding rock bottom."

A number of regional outfits spring to mind that I believe currently offer one or more of the following: FO pay of $15/flight hr or less with reserve pay of 60hrs/month, 1yr contracts requiring $7500 prepaid training bonds, straight out PFT, camping trips and plywood.

If that's not rock bottom then it must surely be only a knats c@ck width away from it.

 

[se1776]

you can go back and flight as a flight instructor and make $35,000 to $41,000
plus benefits
[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]http://www.lft-online.com/[/FONT]

 

[Stewage]

Oh so, you wanna be computer (something or other) well, the bottom-feeding Indians have out-sourced you for 1/4 of the price, and now they are being out-sourced by the scum-bag Chinese for even less.

Dude?